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Roger Ingram Model Jupiter XO Trumpet 1600I


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Yammie
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 am    Post subject: Enabler speaking Reply with quote

Larry,

Expecting us on TH to talk you out of buying a new horn is like holding an AA meeting at Daytona Beach Hooters during spring break

Roger,

Are you using the rounded tuning slide? I haven't had time to try out the squared slide yet, only the rounded.

Thanks-
Bill
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trumpmac
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to also thank you Roger. I think I ws one of the first to hear you play that horn at Fitzgeralds last September. Then lesson the next day. I'm just wondering, with all the combinations, does it come with a comprehensive instruction booklet?
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Yammie
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:32 am    Post subject: True Bore inserts Reply with quote

Roger,

My Jupiter 1600I came with a kit of accessory parts - thin finger buttons, different springs, metal guides (plastic were in the horn), and heavy bottom caps all in a nifty little form fit metal case. But it did not include the True Bore tuning slide inserts. If you have a chance, can you confirm with your sources that those are to be included with the horn along with the other accessories?

Thanks!
Bill K
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RogerIngram
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yammie,

You are one of the very first people to be able to purchase the 1600I. Not including the inserts was most likely an oversight on the part of either the dealer or the distributor.

Even though this is not my department, I will contact Jupiter today and look into the matter. I will make sure they get a set of the true bore insert sleeves out to you.

I will follow-up with you in a pm correspondence.
Roger
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trumpmac
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RogerIngram wrote:
Yammie,

You are one of the very first people to be able to purchase the 1600I. Not including the inserts was most likely an oversight on the part of either the dealer or the distributor.

Even though this is not my department, I will contact Jupiter today and look into the matter. I will make sure they get a set of the true bore insert sleeves out to you.

I will follow-up with you in a pm correspondence.
Roger


What a class act!!
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'73 Silver Bach 37/180
'58 Conn Director Coprion
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RogerIngram
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yammie,

I just spoke with my rep at Jupiter. If you send me a mailing address for you (via pm) I will email the address to Jupiter and they will get a set out to you asap.

The horn has not been officially released yet. You or your dealer must have had an inside connection! Congratulations. The "True Bore" insert sleeves HAVE been mass produced and WILL be included with every 1600I package; you were just a little too early. Everyone else who gets the horn will receive them with the inserts.

All the best,
Roger
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Yammie
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject: Wow! Reply with quote

That's very thoughtful of you, Roger. I sent you a PM, and thanks very much!

Bill
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jazzothman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonalan wrote:
jazzothman wrote:
Here is the latest price from Dillon Music the new 1600i pricing: lacquer $1245 and silver $1295. They have the silver horn in stock. Btw any advice between the silver and the lacquer?

I keep checking Dillon's website and no mention of this horn, much less it being in stock. Who have you spoken to at Dillon's to get this price?


If you are interested you may contact Jim at Dillon music. He will assist you and fyi Jim has been assisting me with all my horn I bought from Dillon. Jim his very helpful I have not problem dealing with them. Their website has not been updated yet but I was told that they have the silver model in stock.


Last edited by jazzothman on Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ldwoods
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Enabler speaking Reply with quote

Yammie wrote:
Larry,

Expecting us on TH to talk you out of buying a new horn is like holding an AA meeting at Daytona Beach Hooters during spring break :)

Thanks-
Bill


I think I can manage to control myself, unless someone buys my Bravura C, or makes me an offer on my Calicchio Dave Trigg. If either of those sell, then I fear I will order one of these 1600i horns...

The other horn I have been itching to try is the Callet Sima. Has anyone played the Sima and the 1600i. Even better, how do either of them compare to the Calicchio DT?
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:43 am    Post subject: xs, s, ms, m, ml, l, xl, etc..... Reply with quote

goldenhornplayer wrote:

Can you comment further on what seems to be a move toward medium bore horns? I play a Callet SIMA .453 bore horn myself and absolutely love it. Do you believe large bore horns are less efficient and unnecessary? Or, is it that different approaches to playing make the move to medium bore the way to go? Any comment you can make on that? Thanks-Ken B.


It's very interesting the way a horn behaves in relation to it's bore size. Here at my study I have a Yamaha Z horn, (l leadpipe, m valvesection, l bell) Julius Keilwerth m bore, s bell, Conn 22b Victor ms bore, s bell, Bach ml 37 bell and recently I was in the opportunity to try the Malcolm McNab B&S Exquisite with it's .444' bore (ms as well?). From this horn I expected a lot since I red loads of hallelujah stories about her but I have to say, the B&S for me was very disappointing: felt very stuffy, actually the worse horn I ever played . The former mentioned horns all have different bore sizes but behave surprisingly more or less equal except for the Keilwerth, she is quite hard to play but far not as hard as the B&S!
What to say? The name of a famous trumpet player behind a horn doesn't necessarily have to say that the horn is a must-have. But when the 1600 i is in town over here I will stick my mouthpiece in her and try her out because as we say over here: "when you don't shoot you'll miss anyway!"

By the way mr. Ingram, what do you mean by 'The "True Bore" insert sleeves'. And is the bell of the Jupiter 1600 i '37' style or more like '72' style? And when can we expect the Jupiter 1600 i over here?

Greetins from Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:58 am    Post subject: xs, s, ms, m, ml, l, xl, etc..... Reply with quote

goldenhornplayer wrote:

Can you comment further on what seems to be a move toward medium bore horns? I play a Callet SIMA .453 bore horn myself and absolutely love it. Do you believe large bore horns are less efficient and unnecessary? Or, is it that different approaches to playing make the move to medium bore the way to go? Any comment you can make on that? Thanks-Ken B.


It's very interesting the way a horn behaves in relation to it's bore size. Here at my study I have a Yamaha Z horn, (l leadpipe, m valvesection, l bell) Julius Keilwerth m bore, s bell, Conn 22b Victor ms bore, s bell, Bach ml 37 bell and recently I was in the opportunity to try the Malcolm McNab B&S Exquisite with it's .444' bore (ms as well?). From this horn I expected a lot since I red loads of hallelujah stories about her but I have to say, the B&S for me was very disappointing: felt very stuffy, actually the worse horn I ever played . The former mentioned horns all have different bore sizes but behave surprisingly more or less equal except for the Keilwerth, she is quite hard to play but far not as hard as the B&S!
What to say? The name of a famous trumpet player behind a horn doesn't necessarily have to say that the horn is a must-have. But when the 1600 i is in town over here I will stick my mouthpiece in her and try her out because as we say over here: "when you don't shoot you'll miss anyway!"

By the way mr. Ingram, what do you mean by 'The "True Bore" insert sleeves'. And is the bell of the Jupiter 1600 i '37' style or more like '72' style? And when can we expect the Jupiter 1600 i over here?

Greetins from Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
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Trptbenge
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I AM anxious to try the 1600I. I have been considering going to a medium bore horn. My experience with B&S is totaly different from the review above. I played the McNab B flat and it was one of the best horns I have played and it did not feel stuffy at all. My only reservation is that it has a more compact sound then I like. Of course Malcolm uses microphones when he is doing studio work so that is not an issue for him.

Mike
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mcombo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:12 am    Post subject: @ ldwoods... Reply with quote

You write: "Has anyone played the Sima and the 1600i. Even better, how do either of them compare to the Calicchio DT?"

I have played the Sima and the Calicchio Dave Trigg very recently at the Chicago trumpet hang. I found both horns to be very similar in feel and sound. Since you're familiar with the DT, I would describe the difference in that the DT feels and sounds more lively and felt easier to play, and was a joy to play in the upper register. It also seemed to have more tonal variance depending on subtle input changes. I really liked it a lot.

That said, and I know you didn't ask, I preferred Dr. Valve's Schilke S42 conversion even over the DT. I presume the Jupiter is quite close to this in blow, response and feel, so if you like the DT, you'll probably flip for Roger's new Jupiter, and you would likely love the S42 conversion.

(Postscript: I went home and ordered the J3 slide for my Wild Thing which made it feel/respond like these horns that I fell in love with.)
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Yammie
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:13 am    Post subject: Endorsement Reply with quote

Manuel and Tptbenge,

Thanks for your opinions on the Exquisite. I'm curious to try one myself as well. Financially, I hope my opinion is similar to Manuel's

After many years on ML+ and L bore equipment, about ten years ago I went to an 8310Z and after adjusting to the difference, it's been a huge benefit to my playing.

So regarding Roger's endorsement, while I have tremendous respect for his playing and career achievements, the value of that endorsement to me lies in the fact that I favor equipment similar to what he has played previously. If he switched from his Yamaha 636B to a Schilke S42 and now to this Jupiter 1600I, I was curious why as I'm familiar with and like both of those previous horns.

Having purchased a 1600I, while I'm still smack in the middle of new horn honeymoon, I'm very pleased with the scale on the horn, and the full sound it has throughout my range. When you factor in the US pricing, it's a tremendous bargain in my view.

Now if they could just include a nicer case, something closer to the Sonare gladstone...
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RogerIngram
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldenhornplayer wrote:
I'd like to add my note of appreciation to you, Roger, for posting on this forum. I have a great deal of respect for you and for your contributions to aspiring trumpet players. A couple of my close friends have recently had lessons with you and came away all the better for it. Also, one of those (a real horn geek) played your horn and has since ordered one for himself.

Can you comment further on what seems to be a move toward medium bore horns? I play a Callet SIMA .453 bore horn myself and absolutely love it. Do you believe large bore horns are less efficient and unnecessary? Or, is it that different approaches to playing make the move to medium bore the way to go? Any comment you can make on that? Thanks-Ken B.



Yammie wrote:
Roger,

Are you using the rounded tuning slide? I haven't had time to try out the squared slide yet, only the rounded.

Thanks-
Bill


trumpmac wrote:
I'd like to also thank you Roger. I think I ws one of the first to hear you play that horn at Fitzgeralds last September. Then lesson the next day. I'm just wondering, with all the combinations, does it come with a comprehensive instruction booklet?
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Sorry for the delayed response folks, I've had a very busy week and this is the first opportunity to sit down, read all the posts, and have a chance to give you more answers. I feel by addressing these 3 specific posts, I should be able to answer a few, if not all, of the inquiries about the XO Series 1600I to date.

Regarding my move toward medium bore horns: actually, I've been playing a medium bore horn since 1983. I switched to a medium bore during the years I worked on the "relief band" in Las Vegas (alongside Lynn Nicholson, Bobby Hamilton, and Vinnie Tanno.)

Because I grew up in Los Angeles, I have known and been friends with Doc Severinsen since I was 16 years old. During a conversation I had with Doc, he mentioned to me that during the days he played on Jimmy Dorsey's band, he played on a Conn Connstellation 38B. If you remember, the 38B has a .438 bore. This is on the small side of medium. Doc said to me, "the bell is your amplifier. Why kill yourself from the mouthpiece receiver to the beginning of the bell tail?" That comment rang a bell with me (no pun intended.) After thinking about it, I started becoming aware of many other great lead/solo trumpet players who have successfully played medium bore horns: namely, Maynard Ferguson during the 60's (he played a Connstellation 38B for over 12 years), Louis Armstrong, Bobby Shew, Lew Soloff, Greg Gisbert, Jon Faddis, Cat Anderson, etc.

During the early 20th century, many jazz/commercial players used small bore horns. Those horns were absolute flame-throwers. Classical/symphonic players, for the most part, played medium large to large bore horns. Then there were the medium bore horns. These days, I honestly cannot name one manufacturer who makes a small bore horn. "Medium" has now become the modern day "small." The early 20th century, in my opinion, was the golden age of horn manufacturing. (There's nothing new under the sun, folks.) It's by those standards that I live. Medium is "medium" to me. It's the nice bore size in between small and large. As with the dynamic levels at which I play, I ALWAYS default to medium. Starting at medium gives you a place to go dynamically (either soft or loud.) The same is true for the amount of resistance a player enjoys with his trumpet. By playing a medium bore, I find my endurance and resistance capabilities are always in the middle and give me more flexibility with regard to speeding up or slowing down air speed. This is why I prefer a medium bore horn.

The next time you get an opportunity, go to a live concert, and listen to Jon Faddis. If you stand in front of his bell while he is playing, you will notice that the projection he gets from his medium bore horn will absolutely take your head off when he decides to light it up and ascend into the extreme upper register. By the same token, when he decides to play a ballad or a moving piece of music in the middle or low register, Jon can sound as warm and fluffy as any trumpet player I've ever heard. In my opinion, a medium bore horn will do everything.

Concerning the tuning slide I use on the 1600I: I prefer the squared slide. Not mentioning that in one of my previous posts was an oversight on my part, and I apologize for this. To reiterate and add to what I said: with the 1600I I prefer the regular weight finger buttons, the metal valve guides, regular weight springs, the regular weight bottom valve caps, the True Bore Insert Sleeves... and the squared tuning slide. I also prefer the brass lacquer version of the horn, although I am considering having it gold plated.

And trumpmac, yes, I wrote a document which will be included with each horn along with the kit (that WILL include the True Bore Insert Sleeves.) This document explains the concept behind the development of the sleeves and instructions for insertion and removal of the sleeves.

One more point: after decades of playing many step-bore (or dual bore) horns, ie the Yamaha 636B and the S42 conversion, I decided I wanted to go one step further with regard to developing a horn with what I consider the perfect leadpipe-bore-bell balance. (The 1600I is a uniform bore trumpet.) This is one of the reasons why I gave my design concepts to Jupiter. Jupiter is very open for innovative and new (or forgotten about) ideas. Also, during lessons I would give to students all over the world, or playing with other pros, after letting them play my conversion, 9 times out of 10, they would express a desire to own one of these horns. Unfortunately, this would've cost them approximately 4,000 USD. I developed the 1600I for my students and contemporaries. I wanted to help put an affordable horn out on the market. Folks, I endorse 8 musical products. I REALLY did not NEED to associate my name to another product. I did not design the 1600I just to "stamp my name on it." Believe me, I've got enough of that. What some horn manufacturers charge for their products is ridiculous in my opinion. Therefore, I offer to my students, fellow pros, and anyone else who is interested, a VERY affordable, finely made, and extremely well balanced instrument.

I hope this answers your questions, and by all means, let me know if there is any more information you need.

All the best,
Roger
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LeroyW
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Roger, for that last post. Extremely well done and very very helpful.. Also for your candidness. Great to have you a part of TH!

LeroyW
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trumpmac
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeroyW wrote:
Thank you, Roger, for that last post. Extremely well done and very very helpful.. Also for your candidness. Great to have you a part of TH!

LeroyW


AMEN! And if the price quoted on here in lacquer from Dillon's is right I'll be ordering one ASAP! And I second what Yammie's been saying. I hope you're getting a piece of this pie Roger.
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Doug Mac
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'73 Silver Bach 37/180
'58 Conn Director Coprion
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interfx
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpmac wrote:
LeroyW wrote:
Thank you, Roger, for that last post. Extremely well done and very very helpful.. Also for your candidness. Great to have you a part of TH!

LeroyW


AMEN! And if the price quoted on here in lacquer from Dillon's is right I'll be ordering one ASAP! And I second what Yammie's been saying. I hope you're getting a piece of this pie Roger.


Just went on Dillon's site, and they have it listed for $1600+... Hope they will still sell for the lower price... I'm calling in the morning...
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trumpmac
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interfx wrote:
trumpmac wrote:
LeroyW wrote:
Thank you, Roger, for that last post. Extremely well done and very very helpful.. Also for your candidness. Great to have you a part of TH!

LeroyW


AMEN! And if the price quoted on here in lacquer from Dillon's is right I'll be ordering one ASAP! And I second what Yammie's been saying. I hope you're getting a piece of this pie Roger.


Just went on Dillon's site, and they have it listed for $1600+... Hope they will still sell for the lower price... I'm calling in the morning...


That's what Pro Winds has it for. Knew it was too good to be true...
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ldwoods
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From one of my previous posts in this thread:

FYI, Washington Musicemailed me a real good price quote on the horn.
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