Selecting A Mouthpiece - Attention Bach 3C Users

[BrassClass]

I enjoy reading the forum on a regular basis and have learned so much from it. The experience in this group of players is priceless.

This is my first mouthpiece question since joining the forum and I’d like some opinions. First off I’m a 47 year old comeback player playing a large bore Schilke B3. I playing mainly in church, an occasion wedding and a little Top-40 band work. My chops defiantly aren’t near where they need to be but I am starting to use my air more correctly and finally seeing some results. The reason I pose this question at this early point is because I am going to soon start on a strict routine using a combination of Claude Gordon and Carmine Caruso materials. I’m not really considering S.C. at this time because 1) I’m not near any S.C. experienced teachers, 2) Can’t afford to fly up to see Jerry for a few days and 3) Really don’t think I could be dedicated enough to change my embouchure at this point. I do want to get the right piece for me, stick with it and forget the rest. (at least for a long time)

I play mainly on a Bach 3C and sound pretty descent on a Schilke 15C4 and a GR 65MS.
Here is how I would best describe how I sound on these pieces:
Bach 3C – Good rich tone – feels great – pretty solid low F# to high C. Can squeak out D’s and Ebs occasionally. Sounds good but seems like a lot of effort to do it.
Schilke 15C4 - A little brighter than the Bach, feels good but doesn’t seem to be quite as flexible as the Bach and doesn’t have the tone either.
GR 65MS – Feels great (at first) – Best sounding piece when I start cold. By far the easiest to play. Nice bright sound but not too bright for me. Only down side, after I play a while, sounds terrible, bottoms out and the real high notes just won’t come out.

I must get some slight swelling of my lips after playing a while. (not a lot- just a little after getting warmed up good). After I play hard, the GR 65MS kind of shuts down on the high notes. Lips just don’t seem to vibrate in it. I can then pick up the Bach 3C and still play a high C. Might take a lot of effort and it might not sound fantastic but I can still get it out.

This is my question: Obviously big mouthpieces seem to work well for me. Wonder if an even bigger piece would work better? I have considered trying a Bach 1 ½ C, a Schilke 13C4 (Schilke’s compatible 3C), or maybe a bigger GR. Anybody ever went to a GR piece that was previously using a 3C? If so, what GR piece did you select?
Would the Bach 3D sound and feel like my 3C but just play easier? Any suggestions or comments?

Funny that the Bach web site states that the 3C and 1 ½C are for “strong robust players with good embouchures”. I’m not that but it’s a fact that the 3C works much better for me than the 5C or the 7C. Also the tone of my 3C is brighter than the 5C and that kind of surprised me.

The perfect piece would have the tone of the Bach 3C, the “initial” playing ease of the GR, and allow me to play up to about an “A” above high C with a reasonable amount of effort . I understand no matter which mouthpiece I use, only hard work will get me there but a little help with the right mouthpiece along the way wouldn’t hurt.

Sorry for the long post. All comments appreciated!


[ This Message was edited by: BrassClass on 2002-01-27 20:57 ]

[ This Message was edited by: BrassClass on 2002-01-27 20:57 ]

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-11-21 12:12 ]

[Mark Heuer]

I've got experience with both the Bach 3C and GR 65 and 66 series mouthpieces. My opinion: GR 66MS.

[trickg]

I think that GR mouthpieces are good mouthpieces but one of the reasons that you might be having some problems is that you, like me, might be playing with too much pressure.

I'm certainly no expert, but I would tend to thing that the GR 65 series mouthpiece that you have must be more narrow than the 3C and the GR might be cutting you off because of it. I recently switched to a GR and the bite plus the width won't allow for me to use much pressure at all.

Get in touch with Brian Scriver at GR and he will let you know which way to go if you want to stick with GR.

http://www.grmouthpieces.com

_________________
Patrick Gleason

[ This Message was edited by: trickg on 2002-01-27 23:35 ]

[B. Scriver]

The bottoming out is a direct result of an alpha angle that is too high for you. I have experienced this first hand. I too have tried the MS cup and can play it except my attacks are a bit sluggish and the upper register gets thin. This is only because of my particular chop protrusion into the cup. For players who have less protrusion than I do, this cup is outstanding.
I can actually play with better sound, control, and range on the GR M cup because the alpha angle is optimum for me. There is only a slight difference (one degree) between MS and M alpha angles. (I have been brief in my alpha angle explanation. If anyone is interested in more alpha information, contact me or I can make another post. See the link below.)

I would suggest that if you like the feel of the 65, then try the 65M. That one degree alpha angle change could mean the world of difference. Send me an e-mail or give me a call to discuss this further.
For more info on alpha angle, go to http://www.grmouthpieces.com and go to the "Ask GR" page.
E-mail me at info@grmouthpieces.com
Brian Scriver

[BrassClass]

Thanks for the responses. Good stuff.

[clarion89]

Hi,

Read the posts above on mouthpiece advice. Sounds like they have put you on a good path. I just wanted to add that I played on a Bach 3C for 12 years. Two years ago I switched to a Bob Reeves 43C and I think it is the best mouthpiece I ever played. It is also compatible with the 3C, but I think it assists in better intonation, tone production and flexibility. You may want to try one out. Good luck!

Matt

[PH]

For all around playing it is my opinion that the Bach 3C works better for more people than any other mouthpiece...as long as you play efficiently and practice enough. For my money it is still the Cadillac.