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John Mohan's Daily Practice Routine Journal


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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it made sense to me, as the ones I have as well as the other 4 Flip has all seem to have something like a #24 backbore. The one I use all the time has a #24 drill, and I just got one from Flip that has a #16 drill
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Cunuckle Head
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
. . . .(a Crash Course is something a lot of you should be considering taking with me - you'll learn a lot more and quicker that way than by just reading about it on the Internet). . . .

Best wishes,

John Mohan


I'll bite John. Please tell us more about your Crash Course.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rick,

I conduct Crash Courses in the same way Claude did for out-of-town students. Generally, I have someone come in and spend 3 to 5 days in Chicago (5 days is better as it spreads out the lessons to 2 lessons per day for the 5 days, but we can compact it into 3 days if the player can only stay for 3 days). The cost of a Crash Course is $750. I have hotels in the area that will provide a discount and there's plenty of good places to eat since we're quite close to Loyola University Chicago.

During the Crash Course we do two one to one-and-a-half hour lessons per day for the five days. During the lessons I give a complete synopsis concerning Claude's (and Clarke's) "Seven natural elements of brass playing" and "What to practice, how the practice and when to practice" and we go over all the material that I'll be assigning for the student to do for the next 8 to 12 months.

During the Crash Course week I write up a complete, approximately 30-lesson lesson plan that will provide the student with an organized daily routine that grows in depth as the student develops. The lesson plan is custom designed, based on the student's current playing-level and the type of playing ability the student wants to develop (classical/orchestral, jazz, rock, or all-around).

After the crash course, the student goes home and practices what I wrote up for him or her, and is welcome to call me anytime if there are problems, or even come in for a "freshening up" during the 8 to 12 month period of time. Then, when the material has been gone through, the student can come back in for the next Crash Course and the next set of developmental routines.

This worked quite well for me - I took two Crash Courses with Claude before moving from Chicago to Los Angeles to study full time with him.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, more than a month's have flown by since the past time I posted a Routine change here! I moved onto to my next level of daily routine awhile back, but never posted it here. Then I had Jim New at Kanstul make me a Bach Mt Vernon 3C clone with a #24 throat. Being that it is a larger mouthpiece than I've played in a long time, I have remained on the same routine for a while to get used to it, not always playing the whole routine every day.

But I'm to the point where I am doing the whole routine everyday and have done so for the past several days, so it's time to post what I'm doing.

Here it is:

1) Irons Groups 5, 5B, 6, 6B and 6C, 7 and 8 (the groups ending with letters are my own creation - I take the last exercises of Groups 5 and 6 and extend it through all 7 valve positions - in the case of my "6C" I do the 6B exercise, but one harmonic higher so it goes up to High C).

Rest at least 15 minutes (usually an hour or so).

2) Clarke #1 and Etude 1 Double-Tongued.

Rest at least 30 minutes (usually an hour or so).

3) Systematic Approach Lesson 3 Part 1.

Rest at least 5 minutes (usually about 15 minutes).

4) Systematic Approach Lesson 4 Part 2, but with just one octave on each arpeggio, followed by Part 3 of Lesson 3 to relax my lips.

Rest at least one hour.

5) Daily Trumpet Routines Lesson 5.

The results of my mouthpiece change:

I lost my range above G above High C. Whereas I had previously had a full power G above High C and quieter but solid notes usually up to the Double C during my Systematic Approach range exercise, when I started using the bigger MV3C I had a decent F# and a fairly wimpy G - and absolutely nothing beyond. This has improved a bit in the past two weeks. Now I always get a fairly solid G and usually a bit of a G# and the occasional Double A. It's definitely the mouthpiece, as I can pop a Reeves 43C or 42C into the horn and get right to the Double C.

So one might ask - why would I go to the MV3C and do this to myself?

Answer:

Because the MV3C makes my tone, sound, attack, and everything except the notes above that G GORGEOUS! I don't mean to sound boastful, but that mouthpiece really improves all aspects of my playing except the extreme upper register (which it has basically killed).

But I think with time and development those exteme upper notes will return, and maybe they'll be even stronger than before (hope so). I've been playing the 43C size mouthpieces for years and to have my tone and sound improve so dramatically so quickly by just going to the MV3C tells me that no amount of practice or time is going to create that nice of a tone as that mouthpiece does. But perhaps, as Vincent Bach and Renold Schilke (and my teacher Claude Gordon) would say: With time and proper development, I can gain the embouchure and air power required to play all the way up to the DHC with the MV3C - all the while gaining the benefit of its amazing tone quality and clean articulations.

And did I mention how much better and stronger the low notes are? It's like I added a subwoofer to my horn!

There's one more thing that I want to mention, and I'm curious if others have experienced the following (two of my own students have at times):

Since going to the MV3C, quite often, when I am doing the Systematic Approach part 2 exercises (the upper range exercises) I experience a weird phenomena: When I go for the G# above High C it doesn't sound, but instead, I find myself sailing up WAY beyond it - and locking in on a G# above DOUBLE C. I can't find the G# above High C I'm looking for - my lips won't vibrate for it, and I can't get anything to sound until all of a sudden, a high pitched sound comes out that is around a D or Eb above Double C, and as I push for it to lock in, it goes to the G# an octave higher than I am aiming for.

I'm not even sure it is a note caused by vibrating lips - I think it might be almost a whistle type effect (and this causes me to think perhaps ALL notes players hit in the G above Double C and upwards range might not really be notes caused by lip flesh vibrating but rather a fast vibration of the wind column only – i.e. a “whistled note”).

Anyone else have this type of experience?

Best wishes,

John Mohan

8/28 edit: I found a typo that was pretty misleading: I had written that part of the routine was SA lesson 13 part 1, where it should have read SA lesson 3 part 1.


Last edited by John Mohan on Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've been playing the 43C size mouthpieces for years and to have my tone and sound improve so dramatically so quickly by just going to the MV3C tells me that no amount of practice or time is going to create that nice of a tone as that mouthpiece does. But perhaps, as Vincent Bach and Renold Schilke (and my teacher Claude Gordon) would say: With time and proper development, I can gain the embouchure and air power required to play all the way up to the DHC with the MV3C - all the while gaining the benefit of its amazing tone quality and clean articulations.



Either that or after a certain amount of time your sound will be right back to exactly what you sounded like on the reeves, but it will take more practice time to stay in that kind of shape.

I seriously would say the odds of that happening are 2 to 1 better than you getting your upper register back and keeping the sound you are getting now.
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, of course. That's why orchestra trumpeters use the smallest possible mouthpiece. Their sound is controlled by what's in their head, so why not make it as easy as possible?

John, I too have experienced this improvement in sound since I started using a Mt. Vernon 3C. And, it did make my upper register difficult for a while. It's been about 10 months, and upper register is pretty much where it was when I used a 1-1/2C: high G for gigs, practice up to dbl C. I did vacillate between the 2 for a while in the beginning, but once I settled on it things started improving. The sound did not go away, but the range improved. I use this mouthpiece for most of my playing, but if I need the precision and sound of a lead/ commercial setting I switch to a copy of a Giardinelli 10sw.
I agree, I haven't been able to produce this quality of sound on any other piece. You should try the real thing if you can find one. I have been blessed by my good friend Flip to be able to play the one I have.
Then again, maybe it's all in my head . . .
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I forgot to mention - it could be the gap affecting the upper register. I believe Reeves come stock with a #4 taper unless you specify something else. I think Kanstul uses something like a #6 taper. If I were you, I would try some sleeves around 5.5 and 5 to see if that helps.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nate wrote
Quote:
Well, of course. That's why orchestra trumpeters use the smallest possible mouthpiece. Their sound is controlled by what's in their head, so why not make it as easy as possible?


so is that sarcastic or something like that?

orchestral players play big equipment because that sound is not completely in their heads. In order to get the right sound and consistency of attack it takes lots of room at the top of the cup. In order to have enough power in the middle register to really pound out something like Tchaic romeo and juliet it takes a lot of cup volume just below the rim. Still the trade off is the upper register. That is why when those guys need to sound big up high (rare) they (often) switch to a different mouthpiece.

The reason that the sound and articulation advantage often times disappears after a while is not becuase that is the sound someone has "in their head" but rather it's because after a while, the lips start to intrude into the top of the cup, especially if they use that mouthpiece to play big notes above high G.

If that player uses a different smaller/shallower mouthpiece for upper register playing then the sound and articulation advantage will very likely remain for as long as the lips do not further intrude into the cup. Switching to a lead setup for lead playing preserves that sound on the legit setup.

That is basically how it works. You can always find players that make the opposite work of course.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
Quote:
I've been playing the 43C size mouthpieces for years and to have my tone and sound improve so dramatically so quickly by just going to the MV3C tells me that no amount of practice or time is going to create that nice of a tone as that mouthpiece does. But perhaps, as Vincent Bach and Renold Schilke (and my teacher Claude Gordon) would say: With time and proper development, I can gain the embouchure and air power required to play all the way up to the DHC with the MV3C - all the while gaining the benefit of its amazing tone quality and clean articulations.



Either that or after a certain amount of time your sound will be right back to exactly what you sounded like on the reeves, but it will take more practice time to stay in that kind of shape.

I seriously would say the odds of that happening are 2 to 1 better than you getting your upper register back and keeping the sound you are getting now.


Ah, no.

Not based on my life experience. When I played 2nd trumpet for "Der Glöckner von Notre Dame" for two years, most of the time on a Bach 1-1/2C or a CG Personal, I promise you, my tone was far darker and more Orchestral than the previous two years during which I played 1st trumpet for "Cats", most of the time on a Marcienkiwicz-made custom mouthpiece that was a shallower version of a 1/1/2C.

If my tone on "Cats" had been as it was on "Glöckner" I would have been fired.

If my tone on "Glöckner" was as it is on "Cats" I would have been fired.

Yes, we can adjust the sound a certain amount using our bodies (lips, tongue, air, etc.). But not that much. And I find it easier to do on bigger, deeper equipment (easier for me to brighten a big mouthpiece than to darken a little mouthpiece) if I want to.

But there's a reason Herseth played the CSO on a Bach 1, while Bill Chase did what he did on a Schilke 6A4A.

Incidently, I do agree with you about the fact that I'll have to practice more to maintain a certain amount of extreme register range and perhaps, endurance.
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Doug, I may have been a bit sarcastic. But, it was only in response to your sarcasm. All in good fun.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crzytptman wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention - it could be the gap affecting the upper register. I believe Reeves come stock with a #4 taper unless you specify something else. I think Kanstul uses something like a #6 taper. If I were you, I would try some sleeves around 5.5 and 5 to see if that helps.


Hey, you're right about this. When I compared the receiver marks on the BMV3C to my Reeves 43C it was clear that the Kanstul-made mouthpiece goes into the horn about a 1/16th of an inch or so farther.

So I did the "paper trick" with the BMV3C to see what increasing the gap would do.

Bob Reeves wrote:
Cut a strip of paper about 1/4 inch wide and an inch long. Lay this paper lengthwise along the outside shank of your mouthpiece (don't wrap it around, lay it lengthwise) and place it in your trumpet.
This will cause the mouthpiece to stick out of the horn a little further (approximately 1/32").


Well, doing this and increasing the gap by about 1/32" made the horn feel stuffy! Interesting, because playing the horn with the Reeves 43C does not feel stuffy at all, even though the gap is rather significantly more than with the BMV3C. But when I increase the gap even a little on the BMV3C, I didn't like the result. Didn't make any difference in the range, made the horn feel stuffy, and it seemed to make the pitch go a bit off when I played arpeggios.

Without adding the paper (meaning almost no gap probably), the BMV3C is at its best. Nice and open, good intonation, and no loss of upper register (meaning no gain of upper register when adding the paper to increase the gap).

So all's well that ends well.

The upper notes are a little stronger today then yesterday, so things are heading in the right direction.

Thanks to everybody for their contributions to this thread!

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick update:

I have not changed routines yet, because though I have not missed a single day of practice, I haven't finished the routine every day - and for the first few weeks of the routine I was getting acclimated to the Mt Vernon 3C so I often didn't do the full routine. I want to stay on this routine until I've done it in full, 14 times. I've completed it 8 days now, and most of the other days I did either both the Irons and the Clarke, or the Irons, Clarke and SA. Only on one occasion did I do just the Irons.

This Mt Vernon 3C mouthpiece has been kicking my butt! But it sounds so beautiful, I can't give it up!!! I rarely get beyond G above High C in my Systematic Approach routine with it (though when I'm fresh nearer to the beginning of a practice day I can get up into the A to B range, with a rather weak Double C on occasion). More importantly, fresh, tired, or worn out, I’ve got a full power consistent F# above High C on it at all times, so I’m good to go for the 1st Book of pretty much any Musical, or casual type gig. (Love the fact that 90% of rock-style music is written in E – that High E, the highest note on an electric guitar just happens to be our F# above High C). For Big Band, the lead player needs a stormin’ G, but for anything else, a screaming F# puts the meat on the table…

For the first couple of weeks I played nothing but the Mt Vernon 3C. And I started getting scared, because it seemed like I had lost the "feel" for the really high notes. But then, several weeks into it, I played a bit on both my Reeves 42C and my Reeves 43C and the really high notes were right there waiting for me. I hadn't lost them, I just haven't built up the strength to play them yet on the MV3C. So I'm sticking with the MV3C for now. I think I can build my range back up on it. I know I can't ever make a 42C or even a 43C sound like this Mt Vernon 3C. Jazz, rock, show, classical - it seems to sound great in any of these styles. Magic. If only the extreme high notes were easier on it. But with time...

I'll keep you posted.

Best wishes,

John
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BPL
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this mpc stuff is way over my head, but as I enter my 3rd year on the routine, I wonder whether I should be thinking about mpc's.

From the discussion here, it sounds like it's an important (if not, crucial) factor. I'm on a CG Personal, and like it a lot, but I'm still "discovering/exploring" the upper register... still searching for the knack of it. My working range is ever so slowly moving up and up.. stronger and stronger, but it's VERY slow going... BUT IT IS MOVING. Should I be thinking about mpc's... please say "no"..

Another question. A while back, some one knocked my horn (CG Selmer) and jammed the mpc. I used a puller and got it out, but I wonder whether that accident may have altered the gap?? How would I diagnose this? Would this have any effect? It feels like the mouth piece actually touches the inner sleeve when I insert it. The mpc sits in the shank tight, though, it doesn't fall out or come loose easily.

Brett
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BPL wrote:
I'm on a CG Personal, and like it a lot, but I'm still "discovering/exploring" the upper register...

From what I've heard the CG Personal can be kind of a beast for many players. I'm just now experimenting with a CG3 and finding it to be way different than my usual Bach setup. Unless you're fairly developed already I'd question the wisdom of using a CGP.
BPL wrote:
A while back, some one knocked my horn (CG Selmer) and jammed the mpc. I used a puller and got it out, but I wonder whether that accident may have altered the gap?? How would I diagnose this? Would this have any effect? It feels like the mouth piece actually touches the inner sleeve when I insert it. The mpc sits in the shank tight, though, it doesn't fall out or come loose easily.

Absolutely a change in gap will affect the low of the horn. A knocked over horn can have lots of other peripheral damage too that's hard to see like braking the solder of the receiver or creating tension at one of the braces.
It's not hard to approximate the gap. Insert your mouthpiece and use a piece of tape to indicate how far it goes into the receiver. Remove the mouthpiece then take something like a chopstick and insert it into the receiver along the wall. When it hits the step of the leadpipe mark how deep it is with tape or a pencil mark. Compare the two depths to find your gap. I think it's been said that very few horns are designed for little or no gap. If that's what you find get thee to a good repair shop.
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BPL
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, cheiden.. I've just done that.. to my surprise, there IS a gap. It measures 4 mm. So I guess that's ok?

I've actually found the CGP to be really great... I love it... right from day 1. Previously I was on a 1C Bach.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BPL wrote:
All this mpc stuff is way over my head, but as I enter my 3rd year on the routine, I wonder whether I should be thinking about mpc's.

From the discussion here, it sounds like it's an important (if not, crucial) factor. I'm on a CG Personal, and like it a lot, but I'm still "discovering/exploring" the upper register... still searching for the knack of it. My working range is ever so slowly moving up and up.. stronger and stronger, but it's VERY slow going... BUT IT IS MOVING. Should I be thinking about mpc's... please say "no"..

Another question. A while back, some one knocked my horn (CG Selmer) and jammed the mpc. I used a puller and got it out, but I wonder whether that accident may have altered the gap?? How would I diagnose this? Would this have any effect? It feels like the mouth piece actually touches the inner sleeve when I insert it. The mpc sits in the shank tight, though, it doesn't fall out or come loose easily.

Brett


I strongly recommend you do NOT start the nightmare that is the mouthpiece safari. You wrote that you like your CG Personal - that absolutely negates the need to risk the waste of development time a mouthpiece safari will cost you.

And forget about the gap - I don't think the microscopic (if any) change the jamming incident could have caused will in any way effect the sound or feel of the horn. Due to the taper of the Kanstul-produced mouthpieces, they tend to have very little gap in most horns. When I play my Kanstul-made CG Personal (on occasion) or my Kanstul-made MV3C that I'm currently using in my Benge CG trumpet, it goes all the way in just as yours does. It is "snug" but I can hear it hit the leadpipe if I just shove it straight in. I think it's the same with my Bach-made Selmer CG (the horn's downstairs, so it's not right here for me to check).

Concerning your rate of progress, slow and steady is exactly the way the progress happens. This weeds out the impatient, so this is good.

Best wishes,

John Mohan

P.S. Concerning the CG Personal mouthpiece, the only reason I don't play it is because the skeletonized rim doesn't feel right for me, and the mouthpiece's diameter might be a little small for me. Despite it not fitting me, I think it's one of the best mouthpiece designs ever created.
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BPL
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John, that's exactly what I wanted to hear.

It truly is an exercise in patience and self-awareness.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick note: At this point, about 8 months after resuming serious practice after around 5 years of barely playing, I feel I've gotten back to point where I'm in good enough shape that I could handle most pro-level situations. I'm sure if I hadn't experimented with various mouthpieces along the way, I'd have reached this level several months ago.

I not as sure about my sight-reading, since I've done nothing yet to get it back in shape. But as far as sound, endurance, range and technique, I'm finally back! Still not going to pursue work yet, as I want to be sure my sight-reading’s up to snuff. And that can't happen until I get to the point where I can increase my daily practice to include sight reading exercises without over-doing it (I don't feel it would be prudent to limit my developmental material in order to be able to add sight-reading exercises - I'd rather wait until I have enough endurance to add the SR material without limiting my developmental material).

Also, as my endurance develops and allows for it, I'm going to start woodshedding Jamey Aebersold material, and really try to develop the ability to improvise well. My improvising skills have always reminded me of the Genesis song, "I Can't Dance".

One other thing I'd like to share with you: I write up my routine as it changes every few weeks to a month, on similar lesson sheets to what Claude used with his students. That way I keep a good record and I know what to do each day. In addition, at the bottom of the page, I keep track of my daily practice – on the days that I do the whole routine, I place a checkmark along the bottom; when I do a portion of the routine, I write an appropriate fraction for that day. And if I don't play at all (it's happened twice in the past month or so), I get a dash. When I've got at least 14 full-practice-day checkmarks, I feel ready to move on and add material, or move to the next set of exercises or models in a particular book.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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BPL
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.. very interested in the evaluation/record keeping part of this. I have wondered often whether it might be a good idea to keep log.. what has been pracitised, when, tempos reached etc. Obviously some of this sort of stuff gets recorded in pencil on our books.. but a retrievable paper trail is different. A compendium, if you will.

It'd be interesting to see a scan of your actual paper work, John. Also, did Claude do any record keeping on his students? If so, what? Did he give you guys tests? Reports? I'm thinking not?

Does anyone know of any blogs or journals of others who have been through the process with the CG routine? Other than my own.. hahaha.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll do a scan of my current lesson sheet, but it won't be until at least tomorrow, as the sheet is at our house on the South Side, and I'm at our Condo on the North Side right now (I sound like a yuppy, don't I?).

Claude had us maintain a notebook binder with all of our past lesson sheets from him and we were to bring it to each lesson. This way, Claude could easily see where we were, and what he'd assigned in the past. No tests or anything like that. Most lesson time was spent going over the new material he was assigning at that lesson - he was far more interested in being sure we knew how to practice what he assigned, then he was in making sure we had really practiced and learned the old stuff. If we had difficulty, we we're expected to let him know. Otherwise, he would assume we had practice what he had assigned, and he'd move us on to the next level.

By the way, I've taken today and yesterday completely off, as I managed to bite ALL the way through my lower lip while eating dinner the other night (I really don't eat like an animal, but...).

The lower lip is still a bit painful inside, but also a bit numb on the outside.

I did play a few notes today and was able to, but there was a bit of pain. If I had to work I could, but I'm glad I don't have to! Will probably play half the routine tomorrow.

Cheers,

John
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