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SA part 2's?



 
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acritzer
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 827
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: SA part 2's? Reply with quote

Quick question for you CG crowd. I'm now a week into my SA stuff. Working on Lesson 2 part 2. I understand that the goal is for the top notes to be the strongest and to use the air power as you go up.

However, I'm finding that as I get into my highest range (somewhere around F-A) things shut off all together if I'm really blowing...however, if I don't blow for the fences they fall into place (softly perhaps, but they're there).
Is this OK? It makes sense to me, but I also want to follow the instructions as best as possible.
Will the increase in power and air allowance come later?

Thanks.
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cinci-sop
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Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 631
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: SA part 2's? Reply with quote

acritzer wrote:
Quick question for you CG crowd. I'm now a week into my SA stuff. Working on Lesson 2 part 2. I understand that the goal is for the top notes to be the strongest and to use the air power as you go up.

However, I'm finding that as I get into my highest range (somewhere around F-A) things shut off all together if I'm really blowing...however, if I don't blow for the fences they fall into place (softly perhaps, but they're there).
Is this OK? It makes sense to me, but I also want to follow the instructions as best as possible.
Will the increase in power and air allowance come later?

Thanks.


Yes that is correct. The object is to play with the least amount of "work" Bruce has always told me that you shouldn't TRY so hard to hit the high notes. Play them like "you don't care" if you hit them or not. Kind of hard to explain, but I find the harder I try to hit high notes the harder it is to get them. The volume and power will come in time. One step at a time. Sure is easier to say than to do
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Besson Sovereign 924R Eb Cornet - Stork 3SC
Besson Sovereign 928 Bb Cornet - Stork 3A
Lawler SA Cornet
Schilke B5 Trumpet - Stork 3B
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royjohn
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2272
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: SA part 2's Reply with quote

message deleted, was supposed to be a PM
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .


Last edited by royjohn on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jetrang
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Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acritzer,

I had the same problems when i used to practice SA and when your range is around G above the staff your SA pt.2 exercise will be really short and probably ruin you for the day.

I bought the book Physical Approach to Elementary brass playing written by CG aswell and this book is really useful, i can practice all parts, play other stuff and have a real good workout without blasted chops the day after.

Maybe you could send a pm to Jeff Purtle, he sells those books at his sites and he gives online webcam lessons aswell, Also he will be able to give you some more information about this book.

Jetrang
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royjohn
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2272
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Gordon people & acritzer,

My profound apologies for sending my last post to the forum rather than as a PM, which is what I intended. I will edit it out and send it as a PM. Very sorry for the intrusion.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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acritzer
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Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 827
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetrang wrote:
Acritzer,

I had the same problems when i used to practice SA and when your range is around G above the staff your SA pt.2 exercise will be really short and probably ruin you for the day.

I bought the book Physical Approach to Elementary brass playing written by CG aswell and this book is really useful, i can practice all parts, play other stuff and have a real good workout without blasted chops the day after.

Maybe you could send a pm to Jeff Purtle, he sells those books at his sites and he gives online webcam lessons aswell, Also he will be able to give you some more information about this book.

Jetrang


I should have been more clear, I'm talking about F-A that're above high C. Thanks.
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acritzer
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 827
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: SA part 2's? Reply with quote

cinci-sop wrote:
acritzer wrote:
Quick question for you CG crowd. I'm now a week into my SA stuff. Working on Lesson 2 part 2. I understand that the goal is for the top notes to be the strongest and to use the air power as you go up.

However, I'm finding that as I get into my highest range (somewhere around F-A) things shut off all together if I'm really blowing...however, if I don't blow for the fences they fall into place (softly perhaps, but they're there).
Is this OK? It makes sense to me, but I also want to follow the instructions as best as possible.
Will the increase in power and air allowance come later?

Thanks.


Yes that is correct. The object is to play with the least amount of "work" Bruce has always told me that you shouldn't TRY so hard to hit the high notes. Play them like "you don't care" if you hit them or not. Kind of hard to explain, but I find the harder I try to hit high notes the harder it is to get them. The volume and power will come in time. One step at a time. Sure is easier to say than to do


Hmm...Interesting. Bruce has also told me. "Always blow, don't back off. But don't blow so hard that you lose control. Take it right up to the point of losing control on your last note crescendos on your range studies."
I guess this is a case of blowing past the point of control.

Poor Bruce, I keep emailing as a practice through the week. I overthink things and am constantly trying to figure out what's going on. And, I'm also trying to feel that I'm building day to day...need to realize it's going to be more like, month to month growth.

Thanks for the reply.
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Matt Parkinson
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Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey there, try not to worry about things so much! I understand where you're coming from, I am the worlds worst worrier, especially when it comes to trumpet...
It is my belief that the notes are stronger on the way up to make sure they are properly supported with air, so you don't compensate with a tighter embouchure, don't forget that as you get towards the top of your range, it will start to thin out a bit as you haven't developed the power or co ordination etc.

Try to remember how things were before you could play a high D for example ( I mean when you would be topping off at a high D). I would wager that you had a similar feeling then as you do now.
I know I'm not a Claude expert but you seem to be doing great to me, I have seen that you have posted quite a few times which is great but remember

'drive all fear from your system'

If you are doing something wrong, I'm sure that Bruce will set you straight!


Hope this helps,
Matt
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acritzer
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Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 827
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Matt. You're right, I need to stop worrying. I also need to be patient. I know both of these things, but it's hard. I guess the biggest issue is that it's my first series of SA exercises, so I want to make sure I'm doing them right. 2 weeks in between lessons is hard when you're thinking too much!
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Jetrang
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Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

acritzer wrote:
Jetrang wrote:
Acritzer,

I had the same problems when i used to practice SA and when your range is around G above the staff your SA pt.2 exercise will be really short and probably ruin you for the day.

I bought the book Physical Approach to Elementary brass playing written by CG aswell and this book is really useful, i can practice all parts, play other stuff and have a real good workout without blasted chops the day after.

Maybe you could send a pm to Jeff Purtle, he sells those books at his sites and he gives online webcam lessons aswell, Also he will be able to give you some more information about this book.

Jetrang


I should have been more clear, I'm talking about F-A that're above high C. Thanks.


That's no problem Acritzer maybe it helps other people reading this stuff =) keep up the good work btw
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BPL
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Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert, but have been doing the routine for 4 years, come May, this year... from what I've been able to figure out, putting SA I and II at the end of the routine, rather than at the beginning as indicated in the book, is helpful to avoid several potential problems with doing the exercises. Doing flexibilties first, is a much nicer way to start out the day ( for me). I've found only 2 problems putting SA at the end of the routine. 1. By the end of the day, I might not have as much strength in my breathing apparatus to "really blow" (compared with the morning)... and;2. You have to be really careful you don't leave Part II too late in the day, because if you do it too soon before a gig, it's a problem at the gig.. Been caught by that one a few times.

Short version... Try putting SA at the end of the routine, and start with tongue level exercises.

Brett
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