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Kanstul Bugles


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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Kanstul Bugles Reply with quote

Why doesn't Kanstul design their bugle so that you can just change slides to go from Bflat to G, similar to what Getzen does with the AHFT? The Getzen is a great horn but even with the BAA discount, it's still $700+. Kanstul forces you to buy 2 bugles at $250.00 each. It seems like they could alter the design some and offer an interchangable slide and offer the best of both worlds at a significantly reduced price from the Getzen offering.

Any thoughts?

Kanstul......are you listening?
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Kanstul Bugles Reply with quote

bwoodard wrote:
Why doesn't Kanstul design their bugle so that you can just change slides to go from Bflat to G, similar to what Getzen does with the AHFT? The Getzen is a great horn but even with the BAA discount, it's still $700+. Kanstul forces you to buy 2 bugles at $250.00 each. It seems like they could alter the design some and offer an interchangable slide and offer the best of both worlds at a significantly reduced price from the Getzen offering.

Any thoughts?

Kanstul......are you listening?


If observation has taught us anything, it's that Zig Kanstul will make what you want (if it is possible to do it well; he doesn't mess with junk), and will do it for a good price. That's not a criticism at all, Mr. Kanstul is an exceptional business man in addition to being a fantastic horn designer and builder.

With that factoid in mind, I'd call him and ask what it would take to make a G slide length for their Bb bugle. I'd bet you'll be happy with the answer.

Good luck!
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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc:

I tend to agree with you. I just thought it strange that they didn't offer it up front and corner the market, so to speak.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Kanstul Bb field trumpet, and looking at it, it seems all it would take to pitch it in G is a longer tuning slide. That should be pretty simple for Kanstul (or a good tech) to make.
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KanstulBrass
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwoodard wrote:
Why doesn't Kanstul design their bugle so that you can just change slides to go from Bflat to G, similar to what Getzen does with the AHFT? The Getzen is a great horn but even with the BAA discount, it's still $700+. Kanstul forces you to buy 2 bugles at $250.00 each. It seems like they could alter the design some and offer an interchangable slide and offer the best of both worlds at a significantly reduced price from the Getzen offering.

Any thoughts?

Kanstul......are you listening?


Thank you for your interest and for your suggestion. We did this for a BAA State Director a number of years ago. So, yes, we can and do offer the Bb bugle with a G slide (for an extra charge).

Our G regulation bugle has a different bore and bell than our Bb regulation bugle, and we originally designed them as two different bugles rather than one that could be converted to the other. This was not done to "force you" to buy two different bugles, but to offer a choice of an excellent Bb regulation bugle or excellent G regulation bugle.

All the best,
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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles:

My wording may have sounded a little stronger than it was intended. Can you let me know what the extra charge would be for the additional slide. I have a friend that is interested as well depending on the cost.

Also, do you offer a good case for this horn? Feel free to PM me if you want to talk offline.

Thanks in advance!
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ohiotpt
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwoodard wrote:

Also, do you offer a good case for this horn? Feel free to PM me if you want to talk offline.


http://www.scoutbugle.com/BugleCase.htm
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Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by.


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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense intended towards Kanstul or anyone in this thread!I know how easy it is for something slightly critical to be taken as more then it is meant to be in terms of an insult. Musical Instrument manufactures seldom think of the mass's that will be buying their instruments. If lucky they might get input from some high level professionals and the like before making something. But that is towards the end of the design phase not the begining and all along. Kind of like the Old Detroit Auto Industry after they built something they would bring in the panels and it was usually just cosmetic fix's and or colors or textures etc.......You did not see them get input from the mass's on handling, performance, drive train etc... they built what they wanted and then after they built it tried to find a market for it!

You are starting to see this change some but slowly and not with those people at the top of the food chain it is the ones at the bottom either making custom trumpets in low volume or those that import horns to America. I too wondered why no one did this about a year ago when I thought about joining BAA and getting the son in on it too! Just about 3/4 of the males on both sides of my family have served in one branch of the Armed Forces not counting compulsory drafts and such! So I take Military Burials very seriously. I like wise have often thought Getzen has bumped their head with regard to the pricing of their Bugle! If I won one or was given one then I am sure I would love it but I would never pay $700 or more for a Bugle!!!!! So if regular Joe's like you and me have thought this then it would seem like it is an obvious thing and would be like wise obvious to offer this as an option!

A lot of good idea pop up on this site and I have even offered some free to more then one company with not a single hitch and in some case's other companies have brought out products matching my idea or simalar not more then 12 months after I offered to someone else! AS of yet though no one I have actually offered the idea to has done anything with them! The main problem is that companies that are doing just fine get complacent and over confident in what they have already done! The only people that look for new idea are the ones that are not big yet and need anything they can to try and claim market share! No one gives them free idea because you can not trust them to execute it properly! You also have to work against perceptions. For some it would not matter if your the smartest guy in the world on Business models and such if you did not go to an Ivy League school you are not getting the job or if you did not go to one of the 9 Technology and Engineering Schools on GM's preferred Recruiting List etc......no engineering job for you! Then you have the Not Invented Here Syndrome.......Stack these all together and the big old guys have a lot working against them!

It would be interesting to find out for instance if Kanstul offers any current model that was the brain child of Joe Blow no one customer that just called up and placed an order and they the company liked it so much they put it into Production? I am going to guess the answerer is "NO"? Their always has to be a past model it is based on or some famous player and on and on! That is one thing I like about Flip Oaks Wild Thing and Jason Harrelsons stuff ! It is their design not some horn supposedly designed by a Famous trumpet player that knows nothing about design and can barely do do simple math and has never worked on a trumpet in his life! I like creativity, I like innovation, I like different solution to a problem, and I like it when people actually build what they client wants as in directly acting on client interaction!!! Maybe I am just too far ahead of the industry but I think their is so much potetial to improve how things are done and how companies interact with their customers and how they plan their future product R&D.

Change now or get your teeth kicked in by the Asians Imports coming to a neighborhood near you soon and not the $50 junk we all think about either! Flexability is the name of the game useing cheap media to connect to the customer and put out products faster then the big boys but still in a mass production format! It is the future! Think of the Olds Custom line or model but with a lot more flexability and a lot less lead time!
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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is WOW!

5 paragraphs on such a simple question. I will work this out with Kanstul and it will be between them and I. They already stated that it can be done and it has been done in the past.
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Treblehorn
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's really a relatively easy conversion. About $150 for lacquer. I've seen a couple of different configurations used, but this is how I chose to turn this:



into this:


I personally like the timbre of the G slide for playing taps over the Bb.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Treblehorn wrote:


I personally like the timbre of the G slide for playing taps over the Bb.


I agree! When I play Taps with any trumpet, I use the concert G major valve combination on the horn, i.e. 1st and 2nd valve down. I honestly think of Bb at too "bright" to quote a trumpet teacher of mine!
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veery715
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To bright, or not too bright, I always say.
In the running for irrelevantest post of the day.


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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought the Bb because that's what is traditionally used in Arlington when field trumpets are used. Mine sounds very somber and bugle-like as long as I use a deep mouthpiece on it. Nothing wrong with playing it in G, though.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
To bright, or not too bright, I always say.
In the running for irrelevantest post of the day.


Ahhh! HEHEHE!

Can't be irrelevant....it actually addressed the topic, sort of!
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
I bought the Bb because that's what is traditionally used in Arlington when field trumpets are used. Mine sounds very somber and bugle-like as long as I use a deep mouthpiece on it. Nothing wrong with playing it in G, though.


Oh my, I hope I didn't imply that there was anything wrong with a Bb bugle. Not at all. I'm just glad anyone takes the time so that "machine" doesn't have to play it.
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PiccoloTrpt
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kapt.Kick

...shut up
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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just performed Echo Taps for two Korean War veterans using Bflat trumpets with 1st valve down. We were told it was the most beautiful thing they had ever heard. I'm sure it was the moment as opposed to the performance, although I would say it did come off quite well.

I felt very satisfied when we were done. It makes you feel good inside to be able to provide a simple service that others are so extremely grateful of.
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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
To bright, or not too bright, I always say.
In the running for irrelevantest post of the day.


Veery: You're not even close. The Captain has that honor on a daily basis!
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Chadwick
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt.Kirk wrote:
Blah Blah Blah....


"I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because that some people out there in our nation don't have maps, and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and The Iraq everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should -- our education over here in the US -- should help the US, or should help South Africa, and should help The Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future for our children." -- Capt. Kirk



Edit: Better, Crazy Finn?


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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unnecessary quoting!
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