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Kanstul Bugles


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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwoodard wrote:
Why doesn't Kanstul design their bugle so that you can just change slides to go from Bflat to G, similar to what Getzen does with the AHFT? The Getzen is a great horn but even with the BAA discount, it's still $700+. Kanstul forces you to buy 2 bugles at $250.00 each.


I own the Getzen Field Trumpet M2003ES, which I purchased off eBay with the optional G slide for about $400. If you're a member of Bugles Across America, they occasionally sell used Getzens there, too.

The Getzen M2003ES uses the 172 bell which gives it a dark and rich sound. There's a TH member (can't remember his name) who's played both, felt the Kanstul projected a bit better, and purchased the Kanstul. I'm going on what I remember his comments to be (and may not remember exactly).

They're both great horns. My point is that you may prefer the sound of one over the other, and this may be more important than having the optional slide.
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Getzen
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where that $700 price came from, but that is more than the MSRP on the M2003E in silver plate (the most expensive model). A lacquered M2003 with a seamless bell sells for right around $350-400 including a special red, white, and blue soft sided case.

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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That price comes right off the BAA application for an AHFT. With the G slide, BAA engraving, and shipping, the cost was $709.00. I don't make stuff up! I understand that this price is all inclusive and the Kanstul price is not. However, I don't see shipping and a case adding $400+ to the final price.
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Getzen
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't get to the page on the BAA listing the pricing for some reason. Keep in mind that every dealer sets their own pricing. For comparissons sake, look at WWBW. They sell a silver plated M2003 with a case for $471 with free shipping. A lacquered one would be $358. They don't list the G slide, but the MSRP on those is $80 in lacquer and $90 in silver plate. So, assuming they charged full MSRP for the G slides, you are looking at $438 for a lacquered M2003 with a case and G slide. Silver plated would run you $561.

I am wondering if the $709 price is for the M2003 Elite with the hand hammered bell. I only say this because everything I have ever heard before was that BAA sold the horns for much less than anyone else.

Granted, even at the WWBW price the M2003 is still more expensive than those from Kanstul or Amati. We don't produce the field trumpets as a money maker by any means. The more important thing is what they are to be used for. As long as players are performing Taps live, I am a happy man whether they are doing it on a Getzen, a Kanstul, a bugle, a trumpet, or a length of garden hose and a funnel. Anything is better than a recording on a boombox or those wonderfull little digital bugles.

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ohiotpt
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, now this can't be a TH thread without a little controversy.

So get ready, here goes:

First take a look at some of the bugles discussed in this thread (and a couple of others):


Kanstul Regulation Field Bugle,  An Amati 223,  A Scoutbugle.com Centennial G Bugle, A Jupiter Brigadier Bugle, and a Getzen Field Trumpet (B-Flat with G Slide). 

None of these are actually BUGLES...Look at their shape. They all have cylindrical bores. Which, makes them TRUMPETS. No valves, but still TRUMPETS. Which is why (I understand) Getzen markets theirs as the Getzen Field TRUMPET.

Bugles, have CONICAL bores, like so:


Now how's that for controversy?
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Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by.


Last edited by ohiotpt on Tue May 18, 2010 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
I have a Kanstul Bb field trumpet, ...

I know the difference.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getzen wrote:
I can't get to the page on the BAA listing the pricing for some reason.

Maybe it was down temporarily. Here's the link.
http://www.fieldtrumpet.com/

Getzen wrote:
I am wondering if the $709 price is for the M2003 Elite with the hand hammered bell. I only say this because everything I have ever heard before was that BAA sold the horns for much less than anyone else.

You're probably correct, that the $700 price is for the M2003E. I own the M2003ES, and am very happy with it. But my understanding is that the less-expensive M2003 is also a very fine instrument, as are the Kanstul bugles. Also for clarification, the Getzen price includes a case and mouthpice. The Kanstul price is for the horn only. But you can't go wrong with either brand.
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Treblehorn
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohiotpt wrote:
Okay, now this can't be a TH thread without a little controversy.

Bugles, have CONICAL bores, like so:


Now how's that for controversy?


Me Likey! That's a pretty horn right there!
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohiotpt wrote:
Okay, now this can't be a TH thread without a little controversy.

So get ready, here goes:

First take a look at some of the bugles discussed in this thread (and a couple of others):


Kanstul Regulation Field Bugle,  An Amati 223,  A Scoutbugle.com Centennial G Bugle, A Jupiter Brigadier Bugle, and a Getzen Field Trumpet (B-Flat with G Slide). 

None of these are actually BUGLES...Look at their shape. They all have cylindrical bores. Which, makes them TRUMPETS. No valves, but still TRUMPETS. Which is why (I understand) Getzen markets theirs as the Getzen Field TRUMPET.

Bugles, have CONICAL bores, like so:


Now how's that for controversy?


In reality, everything is conical and nothing is cylindrical.
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ohiotpt
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:

In reality, everything is conical and nothing is cylindrical.


They agree:

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Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohiotpt wrote:
dr_trumpet wrote:

In reality, everything is conical and nothing is cylindrical.


They agree:


Dang, haven't viewed that group in a while!
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bwoodard
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
Getzen wrote:
I can't get to the page on the BAA listing the pricing for some reason.

Maybe it was down temporarily. Here's the link.
http://www.fieldtrumpet.com/

Getzen wrote:
I am wondering if the $709 price is for the M2003 Elite with the hand hammered bell. I only say this because everything I have ever heard before was that BAA sold the horns for much less than anyone else.

You're probably correct, that the $700 price is for the M2003E. I own the M2003ES, and am very happy with it. But my understanding is that the less-expensive M2003 is also a very fine instrument, as are the Kanstul bugles. Also for clarification, the Getzen price includes a case and mouthpice. The Kanstul price is for the horn only. But you can't go wrong with either brand.


That is correct. It is the top dog in silver with the engraving, etc. I just priced it again and it came to $685.00. FTR: the Kanstul comes with a one piece bell like 2003ES.
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2015 Harrelson Summit 4/10
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nyctrumpeter
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:
ohiotpt wrote:
Okay, now this can't be a TH thread without a little controversy.

So get ready, here goes:

First take a look at some of the bugles discussed in this thread (and a couple of others):


Kanstul Regulation Field Bugle,  An Amati 223,  A Scoutbugle.com Centennial G Bugle, A Jupiter Brigadier Bugle, and a Getzen Field Trumpet (B-Flat with G Slide). 

None of these are actually BUGLES...Look at their shape. They all have cylindrical bores. Which, makes them TRUMPETS. No valves, but still TRUMPETS. Which is why (I understand) Getzen markets theirs as the Getzen Field TRUMPET.

Bugles, have CONICAL bores, like so:


Now how's that for controversy?


In reality, everything is conical and nothing is cylindrical.


Does that matter that much? We all what they are and what they are there for. Kanstul markets a coach horn but its not a horn in any way, so what do you call that? Hands down - Kanstul Bugles are the best!
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garrett901
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does that matter that much? We all what they are and what they are there for. Kanstul markets a coach horn but its not a horn in any way, so what do you call that? Hands down - Kanstul Bugles are the best!



I share that same opinion, and I've played quite a few...
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Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
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ohiotpt
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garrett901 wrote:
Quote:
Does that matter that much? We all what they are and what they are there for. Kanstul markets a coach horn but its not a horn in any way, so what do you call that? Hands down - Kanstul Bugles are the best!



I share that same opinion, and I've played quite a few...


There's some Kanstul Bugles available hot out of the oven:
http://www.scoutbugle.com/GetKan.htm
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-fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by.
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garrett901
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks... I already have a few. My Avatar shows me playing my Kanstul Custom Class, three valve, "G" Soprano Bugle. It's a Hybrid of a standard "G" Bugle with a "Power Bore" bell. I get the best of both worlds. It's deep, dark and fat in the lower to upper middle registers and really ZINGS in the upper. Intonation is absolutely superb ! The most I ever have to move the tuning slide is about 1/16 to 1/8 inch at the most. The Artisans / Craftsmen at Kanstul really took care of me when I brought the horn in for repair. Great bunch of folks and Zig is AWESOME ! That mid 1980's horn looks and sounds factory new !!!

I LOVE THAT HORN !!!
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Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
Dale Proctor wrote:
I have a Kanstul Bb field trumpet, ...

I know the difference.


Dale,

Are you arguing with your own post?
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mrsemman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I have a Kanstul G Bugle, which I use for playing taps as part of military honors, I wonder why the need to change key of the bugle? The only reason I could see would be as part of an echo taps.

I have repaired and played Bb bugles, and did not like the quality of sound, that I have with the G bugle.

What other reasons would one have to change the key?
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garrett901
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What other reasons would one have to change the key?


Two reasons; First, tradition

Second; Bugles in the key of "G" have a wider sound band (more overtones) thus project way better outside. Bb Bugles were traditionally used during ceremonies where folks were close by. "G" bugles were used on the battlefield, where the Bugle signal needed to be herd!

Modern day equation: Drum and Bugle Corps today have switched mainly to Bb horns. Up close they sound absolutely beautiful ! Unfortunately, the sound does not carry to the audience in the stands thus they sound anemic at a distance. The activity's answer to this was to allow synthesizer with amplification to make up for the lower overtones lost by using the Bb horns.

A few Senior and Alumni Corps (mine included) are sticking with the "G" horns. hearing the difference back to back is an eye opener for most. Our 35 member "G" horn line can put out the same "sound" as a 55 to 60 horn line playing Bb's !

DCI (Drum Corps International) essentially made the switch from "G" to Bb under pressure from individuals who thought (incorrectly) that the "G" horns were inferior and actually harmed players playing them. Also There was a concern about money. It's easier to sell Bb horns second hand. more of a market.

I perfer the deep sound of the "G" Bugles.

As one of my friends say; There's no Bb in BuGle !
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Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
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Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garrett901 wrote:
The activity's answer to this was to allow synthesizer with amplification to make up for the lower overtones lost by using the Bb horns.

That's like when a football team pipes in extra crowd noise via the some amps since they're own crowd isn't loud enough.

Pathetic.
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