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George Borodi restorations



 
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markp
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: George Borodi restorations Reply with quote

I'm thinking of purchasing a vintage horn that has been restored by George Borodi in Ohio. Many of his restorations are on ebay and I believe he has an ebay store.

Is he in the same class as Charlie Melk, Dr. Valve or Rich Ita?

Please PM me if you have critical things to say and are hesitant to do it on the public forum.

His stuff LOOKS great, but that is only a small part of what I'm looking for in a restored instrument. Can anyone attest to his excellence in making horn PLAY great.
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Uberopa
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I had my L.A. Olds Ambassador cornet restored by Borodi's. I tried them because of the pretty Alaska Brass instruments advertised on the net that were restored by their shop. Yes, I am that shallow. They were courteous and the work was very well done although the valves needed a final adjustment by a local tech to get them working the way they I liked. The lacquer finish has stood up quite well. The price for the restoration was at that time around $200.

I hope this helps.

Brian
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davewithabuescher
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on my past experience I would look for another horn and avoid that vendor like the plague. Charlie is an artist, George is something much less.
In finding the links for this post I realize you already got this same advice.
Dave

Cliff notes version from prior posts:
On Ebay I found a vendor who auctioned off complete rehab and/or re-plating of horns (I won’t mention them by name here) they had excellent feedback and the website pictures showed dire horns made new and whole again. They had 2 locations, one in Alaska and one here in Ohio an hour or two from us. I contacted them by phone and talked with the owner of the Cleveland location who told me the Buescher 400 was an excellent horn and that he would rate it as equal to a Bach, Benge or Schilke and could rehab it to better than new for $300.00 in a couple of weeks.
I took a few before pictures and sent the horn and a check to the merchant and waited.
Well a couple of weeks went by and I got a bit worried so called and again talked with the owner.
He said the horn had been laquered over the silver and gold plating and that he couldn’t buff the finish as it would just turn the laquer cloudy and dull all over, but said he could strip and re-silverplate the whole horn for and extra $100.00. I asked my son what he thought and he eagerly offered to pay the extra himself for the extra new “shinyness” treatment (some things never change . At this point I had as much money in the old 400 as the nearly new Blessing, but having a nice horn at home to practice on seemed like and awesome idea.
Well after another month I called again and “your horn is almost ready”. Well I called the next week and he promised to send it out the next day. A few days later the Buescher arrived home..
It was very shiny and the dents were mostly gone, a faint ripple here and there but mostly nice until you began to look closely…..All the slides were plated end to end, which would be fine except they were so tight they were almost immobile. The new plating was only shiny in the open areas, it was dull and flat in the nooks and crannies. My son loved it anyway and oiled the hell out of the valves trying to break them in as the vendor claimed to have re-plated them. Well 2 weeks and a bottle of Al Cass later I called back and complained of the sticking valves as they were really worse than when we had sent it in. The merchant asked me to send it back and he would polish the finish and hone the valves. Well again a large period of time and a few phone calls later the horn arrived with no discernable changes made.

I have never dealt with the alaska folks but they told me they had a second location in Cleveland, when I contacted them a few years back.
The Cleveland location ended up being Borodi Music.
In short I had a very bad experience with Borodi Music,


links to full posts:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81336&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84100&highlight=
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???? Holton T102S
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supportlivejazz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall that he and Alaska Pro horns were connected. Alaska Pro Horns is back on ebay under another name selling the same type of items, flashy restorations. I've not purchased anything from either of them because of feedback here and because restorations in general and restorations of the type they sell are not of any interest to me.

My advice is always the same. Buy original in great/very good condition. Then if you decide that you will keep the horn because it is perfect for you, have it restored by Charlie or one of the other fine techs that are recommended frequently here on TH.
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ohiotpt
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: George Borodi restorations Reply with quote

markp wrote:

Is he in the same class as Charlie Melk, Dr. Valve or Rich Ita?


Rich Ita was very professional to work with on a couple of different projects.

One of the projects was evaluating a Cuenon Flugel that was overhauled by Boradi about 12 (or more) years ago. The valves just never worked right....and it got put away to became a future project. Last year I sent it to Rich who pointed out that there was a lot of junk left over from the overhaul and the springs were of various sizes took care of things for a fair price. Now it's a fantastic horn.
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Last edited by ohiotpt on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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eagle362
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember seeing on some of his horns on his site and ebay that they really looked over-buffed. Once that is done to a horn, you might as well give up.
The 2 tech I have personally used and have seen restoration work done are Charlie Melk and Mark Metzler.
Those 2 for sure know how to restore without overbuffing>
Stick with what has worked for the majority here.
Good luck.
Mark
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trumpaholic
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AVOID BORODI " ruined a good vintage early LA Benge. Valve overhaul was pathetic, and gold started to flake off two weeks after getting the horn. Unfortunately, I did not know about Tom Green at the time......

Rich Ita and Charlie Melk are top professional brass techs.
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silverhorn
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best repair techs are Robb Stewart, Rich Ita, Charlie Melk, and Mark Metzler. These are the only ones I currently trust for my restoration needs for my most valued vintage horns.
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trumq
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: George Borodi restorations Reply with quote

ohiotpt wrote:

A Cuenon Flugel that ...the springs were of various sizes...


No doubt this was done to calibrate the valves to the different strengths of your individual fingers. That's attention to detail!!
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KansasTrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dad always told me that is it sounds too good to be true it probably isnt true. A $200 overhaul is pretty dang cheap! Most shops charge $60-$75/hr.

Most trumpets take me around 6-8 hours to clean, strip, polish, and spray. A lot of times they take me longer, but I charge a flat rate for most overhauls.

At such a low rate I would assume they are doing some kind of economy overhaul and aren't taking the time to polish by hand and are just buffing the heck out of the horns. You can get a decent finish this way, but in the end wont have much of a horn left.
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supportlivejazz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is an Alaska Pro Horns restored horn. I'm not sure if Barodi still does the work, but the style of the ads and descriptions and the type of restoration are the same as his old ID. I shortened the link so guys like me with old computers don't have to scroll back and forth for the rest of the thread.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gorgeous-Museum-Quality-Olds-MENDEZ-Silver-Trumpet_W0QQitemZ280454890114
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swingshift
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try DQ....its worth it.....
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davewithabuescher
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swingshift wrote:
try DQ....its worth it.....

+1

he has worked on 5 of my horns and built a 6th for me, nothing but praise for his workmanship and communication
Dave
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1928 Conn 2B
1939 Buescher 400
1941 York Custom Model
1947 Blessing Super Artist
1959 Mt Vernon Bach Stradivarious
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???? Holton T102S
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supportlivejazz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: George Borodi restorations Reply with quote

markp wrote:
I'm thinking of purchasing a vintage horn that has been restored by George Borodi in Ohio. Many of his restorations are on ebay and I believe he has an ebay store.

Is he in the same class as Charlie Melk, Dr. Valve or Rich Ita?

Please PM me if you have critical things to say and are hesitant to do it on the public forum.

His stuff LOOKS great, but that is only a small part of what I'm looking for in a restored instrument. Can anyone attest to his excellence in making horn PLAY great.
I'm curious what make and model horn you are interested in. I've posted here many times about buying restored trumpets. The thing is if a horn needs restoration before it's sold then it was probably somewhat of a beater. It at least looked too bad to sell, but bad enough to buy cheap so adding the cost of restoration didn't make it too expensive to sell. All restored horns are worth less than the same horn in very good original condition. All buyers who have educated themselves will prefer to buy a horn un-messed with so they can test it, get comfortable with it, choose the look they want in a restoration and then choose the tech that they want to do the work. This is true in musical instruments, vintage cars, vintage motorcycles... everything that is old and desirable and sought after. Just my opinion.
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: George Borodi restorations Reply with quote

supportlivejazz wrote:
markp wrote:
I'm thinking of purchasing a vintage horn that has been restored by George Borodi in Ohio. Many of his restorations are on ebay and I believe he has an ebay store.

Is he in the same class as Charlie Melk, Dr. Valve or Rich Ita?

Please PM me if you have critical things to say and are hesitant to do it on the public forum.

His stuff LOOKS great, but that is only a small part of what I'm looking for in a restored instrument. Can anyone attest to his excellence in making horn PLAY great.
I'm curious what make and model horn you are interested in. I've posted here many times about buying restored trumpets. The thing is if a horn needs restoration before it's sold then it was probably somewhat of a beater. It at least looked too bad to sell, but bad enough to buy cheap so adding the cost of restoration didn't make it too expensive to sell. All restored horns are worth less than the same horn in very good original condition. All buyers who have educated themselves will prefer to buy a horn un-messed with so they can test it, get comfortable with it, choose the look they want in a restoration and then choose the tech that they want to do the work. This is true in musical instruments, vintage cars, vintage motorcycles... everything that is old and desirable and sought after. Just my opinion.


Personally, I look at just what is damaged and how much. For restorations I go up the street to Charlie, and I get charged the same no matter how much he has to do to it, unless I have to pay for parts, such as I did for a new mouthpipe.

It's going to matter too if you're buying to hold and play versus guys who like to buy something to mess with and then resell a year later.

Tom
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mark read
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: George Borodi restorations Reply with quote

Buyers Beware! Sure enough everything from this store looks great. I bought a reconditioned Bach Mercedes Marching Baritone via Ebay from Borodi Music. It looked fairly good when it arrived although there were quite a few lacquer issues on closer inspection, although this was the least of my concerns! The instrument was horrendously out of tune with itself! The bottom C is nearly a B therefore affecting the next 6 chromatic steps and there is absolutely nothing I can do to fix it. Any half decent brass player would have noticed this issue immediately if the instrument had been properly tested after reconditioning. Unfortunately I bought the instrument from overseas so was unable to test the instrument beforehand, and when I reported back the problem to Borodi Music all communication on their part ceased! I wasted over 1000 pounds on this instrument (including the highly 'bumped up' shipping costs). I accept that this instrument could have been a one off mistake, but the complete lack of communication once they had my money makes me suspect not.
I sincerley warn overseas buyers not to trust this company, they seem to be proficient welders but not at all brass instrument specialist. The feedback from people that have actually visited the shop and tested some of Borodi's instruments seems to vastly differ from mine which is why I warn overseas buyers in particular.
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