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Is the juice worth the squeeze - going into debt for school



 
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Is the juice worth the squeeze - going into debt for school Reply with quote

I saw a discussion on Facebook hosted by Denson Doug Pollard of the MET opera asking for a discussion from people who have gone through school and gone into debt for it. Was it worth it? Do you strongly advise against it? What makes it worth it?

Look forward to the discussion
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the answer will depend a lot on the career field and the amount of debt.

In law and medicine, you can't enter the field without substantial schooling and, many times, substantial debt. Careers in the arts don't require licensing or certification (unless you plan to teach) and success depends more on talent than the kind of validation provided by a college degree.

Doctors, lawyers, and business professionals can often afford to take on substantial debt because their earning power is likely to be dramatically increased by an expensive education. A musician, on the other hand, is probably not going to have access to the big bucks no matter how much he or she spends on schooling. That's just the way it is.

In my case, I realized I probably didn't have enough talent to succeed as a
performer no matter how much debt I took on so I elected to go into a different field. In the process of earning several degrees I took on a modest amount of debt but it gave me access to a career in which I was able to earn a comfortable living and also enjoy trumpet playing as a hobby.

The best advice I could offer anyone is to consult with teachers, parents, and friends and do a ton of research before taking on a lot if debt. Study the risks and rewards and don't sign anything until you have a clear sense of whether you will receive a satisfactory return on your investment.
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scatanas
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get $90,000 in debt by getting a bachelor's in Sociology with a minor in Philosophy - you're an idiot. You're gonna work at Starbucks.

Get $150,000 in debt by becoming a pharmacist, a CRNA, etc - you'll start your first job at $79.50/hour like one of my friends just did.
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Larry Smithee
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scatanas wrote:
...by getting a bachelor's in Sociology with a minor in Philosophy - you're an idiot. You're gonna work at Starbucks.


Or you can get a degree in communications and then enjoy life on easy street, as the ceo of Starbucks did. The point is that it doesn't really matter what you major in. What matters is that you do well. If sociology turns you on then go for it. There are lots of careers that require a college education but are not necessarily college degree specific.

Larry
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scatanas
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry Smithee wrote:
scatanas wrote:
...by getting a bachelor's in Sociology with a minor in Philosophy - you're an idiot. You're gonna work at Starbucks.


Or you can get a degree in communications and then enjoy life on easy street, as the ceo of Starbucks did. The point is that it doesn't really matter what you major in. What matters is that you do well. If sociology turns you on then go for it. There are lots of careers that require a college education but are not necessarily college degree specific.

Larry



I agree, but those are major exceptions...

In that case, why go to college altogether?? Why not drop out like Mark Zuckerberg did?...

Or why not rely on the lotto?...

The point is that for the vast majority of cases, getting a degree in certain disciplines (medicine, engineering, law, etc) usually yields much better financial rewards than gettting degrees in 12th Century English Poetry and what not.
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Music Performance degrees are useless unless you're very good and you know how to work very hard.

Then there's the debt . . .
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gbdeamer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scatanas wrote:
Larry Smithee wrote:
scatanas wrote:
...by getting a bachelor's in Sociology with a minor in Philosophy - you're an idiot. You're gonna work at Starbucks.


Or you can get a degree in communications and then enjoy life on easy street, as the ceo of Starbucks did. The point is that it doesn't really matter what you major in. What matters is that you do well. If sociology turns you on then go for it. There are lots of careers that require a college education but are not necessarily college degree specific.

Larry



I agree, but those are major exceptions...

In that case, why go to college altogether?? Why not drop out like Mark Zuckerberg did?...

Or why not rely on the lotto?...

The point is that for the vast majority of cases, getting a degree in certain disciplines (medicine, engineering, law, etc) usually yields much better financial rewards than gettting degrees in 12th Century English Poetry and what not.


I respectfully disagree.

Getting a college degree proves that you had the discipline and work ethic required to begin and complete a course of study that spanned a number of years. The rigor and intensity of the programs will vary depending on the degree and the university/college, but the accomplishment means a lot.

For those who bemoan the expense, nobody said you had to choose Harvard or Yale. There are plenty of state schools and smaller colleges/universities where you can get your degree while working.

Yes you will accumulate some debt, but not the massive amounts that are posted in many places.

If you're serious about a degree then get good grades and become active in high school. Get scholarships. Once in college/university look for internships and additional external funding. Work as many jobs as you can.

I work in a job outside of my field of study in school, but I wouldn't have been allowed in for an interview if I didn't have the degree.
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Larry Smithee
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scatanas wrote:
Larry Smithee wrote:
scatanas wrote:
...by getting a bachelor's in Sociology with a minor in Philosophy - you're an idiot. You're gonna work at Starbucks.


Or you can get a degree in communications and then enjoy life on easy street, as the ceo of Starbucks did. The point is that it doesn't really matter what you major in. What matters is that you do well. If sociology turns you on then go for it. There are lots of careers that require a college education but are not necessarily college degree specific.

Larry


In that case, why go to college altogether?? Why not drop out like Mark Zuckerberg did?...

Or why not rely on the lotto?...


Very true. College isn't necessarily the right direction for everyone. Most of us know that a college degree doesn't come with a guarantee but it might open some doors that otherwise might be closed.

As for the lotto, many of us just don't have enough confidence in that method so we go to college hoping for a little edge in the career market place.

Larry
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scatanas
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry Smithee wrote:
scatanas wrote:
Larry Smithee wrote:
scatanas wrote:
...by getting a bachelor's in Sociology with a minor in Philosophy - you're an idiot. You're gonna work at Starbucks.


Or you can get a degree in communications and then enjoy life on easy street, as the ceo of Starbucks did. The point is that it doesn't really matter what you major in. What matters is that you do well. If sociology turns you on then go for it. There are lots of careers that require a college education but are not necessarily college degree specific.

Larry



In that case, why go to college altogether?? Why not drop out like Mark Zuckerberg did?...

Or why not rely on the lotto?...


Very true. College isn't necessarily the right direction for everyone. Most of us know that a college degree doesn't come with a guarantee but it might open some doors that otherwise might be closed.

As for the lotto, many of us just don't have enough confidence in that method so we go to college hoping for a little edge in the career market place.

Larry


I just wanted to quote a person who quoted a person who quoted someone else.
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scatanas
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gbdeamer wrote:


I respectfully disagree.

Getting a college degree proves that you had the discipline and work ethic required to begin and complete a course of study that spanned a number of years. The rigor and intensity of the programs will vary depending on the degree and the university/college, but the accomplishment means a lot.

For those who bemoan the expense, nobody said you had to choose Harvard or Yale. There are plenty of state schools and smaller colleges/universities where you can get your degree while working.

Yes you will accumulate some debt, but not the massive amounts that are posted in many places.

If you're serious about a degree then get good grades and become active in high school. Get scholarships. Once in college/university look for internships and additional external funding. Work as many jobs as you can.

I work in a job outside of my field of study in school, but I wouldn't have been allowed in for an interview if I didn't have the degree.



Yes indeed. I never said that there's absolutely no worth in getting any degree, be it basket-weaving for that matter.

What I was trying to say though, was that the majority of my friends who got english, sociology, liberal arts, philosophy, etc., etc., degrees are nowhere near as well off and do not posess the job security of my friends who received degrees in medicine, pharmacy, engineering, etc., etc.

So if you're gonna go through all the work and expense of a college degree and you're gonna put in all those hours of studying choose one that pays off and you can pay your entire college debt in 2 years not 25.
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I can see (as a relatively recent grad)
Some degrees (engineering, CS, pharma, etc.) -> helpful for a specific career
Most degrees -> helpful for getting a job of some kind

In general a degree is required to get a job nowadays, but most degrees it's irrelevant what the degree is, the importance is that you have it.
I can't speak to the value of a music degree as though I have one, I double majored in CS as well.
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Matthew Anklan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A person who wishes to obtain music performance degree(s) should consider the following:

1. What is the music scene like where I will live?
2. Am I a versatile enough player to work within that scene?
3. What is the average cost of living?
4. What can one expect to earn typically on the different kinds of calls/gigs?
5. What do I want out of life? (House, family, cars, etc.)
6. How much will I have to work per week in order to meet my bottom line?
7. Will teaching lessons become a part of the equation? Likely yes.
8. Is this a realistic endeavor?

For me, it became a realistic endeavor. My BM and MM are both in jazz trumpet performance, however I do a fair amount of classical/pops playing, jazz playing, teaching, studio recording, and have a hand in just about everything else you can imagine within the music industry. Making a career (and a life) in music takes some serious work, but the pay off is so rewarding.

9. Am I the hardest (smartest) working, most self-motivated person I know?

...You better be.
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veery715
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to be ready and willing to network like crazy!!!

"Ain't no job gonna call you on the telephone." - Byron Stripling
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