Selmer Paris Concept TT - another view

junkyt · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:13 am Post subject:

After an exhaustive search, I (gulp) plunked down the money for a Selmer Paris Concept TT last week, and so far, I can't seem to get this stupid grin off my face.

First, some history: I am a 'comeback' player. I started playing in 2nd grade after Dizzy and his band played at my elementary school's multi-purpose room (no joke). Played a couple student horns (Yamaha, Mercedes II), and then jumped up to a Bach Strad 72. Played that horn all the way through college in symphony, big band, rock bands and the like. After college, I put the horn down and didn't return to it until 9 years later (4 years ago). At that time, I started playing mostly small-group jazz, and found very quickly that I did not like the Strad very much. It felt very hard to play, and seemed to give me too much resistance. I played a friend's vintage Martin Committee, fell in love with the sound, and found a 1946 on eBay, which I purchased and played, pretty happily, I should add, until last week. But I have started to play more rock/R&B/lead type stuff in the last year ($$), and found the Martin to be somewhat limiting...hard to play up top, thin-sounding, not great projection...

So off I go on the oddessy that is finding a new horn. There is a new wind instrument store near Seattle called Dick Akright Music, and Jimmie let me take out many horns to try. I played the Conn Vintage 1 (all different bells, finishes, bores, etc.), the Kanstul Wayne Bergeron, Kanstul Chicago 1001, Yamaha Xeno, Yamaha Bobby Shew, and various Bach's, just to see. While all of these horns had their merits, they also all had issues (or should I say, I had issues with them).

Then, after reading Dave/dcstep's reviews of the Concept TT, and exchanging a few emails with him, I took one out to see for myself. Now, I can't thank Dave enough for his guidance.

So, now the review: I'll start by saying that I played an 80J a few years ago in Paris and loved it. I have been dreaming about that horn ever since, but only ever found one in the states to play...at Dillon. I remember playing the TT in Paris too, but I didn't have much of an opinion at that time because I was blinded by the 80J. So last week I take the TT out for a test drive with a Schilke 14a4a. The first difference I noticed between this horn and my Martin with the same Mpc was how full the TT sounded, even with the small piece. My Martin is the .453, and the TT is .463, and the difference is incredible. In just playing alone at home, I found the horn to be so resonant, full-bodied, and easy to play throughout all registers. It hums down low and completely sizzles up high. Intonation is great (I do have to use the third valve slide on D/Db/Eb down low).

Then, I played it with my soul band (Soul Provider), and was amazed at the sound that came back to me. It cuts through the sound of both the horn section and the band as a whole, and is so well defined that my band mates were all turning around to find out what was going on with this trumpet player they've been almost hearing for a year now. I got so many positive comments about the sound of the horn, even from the drummer, that I was convinced it was the right horn for that job.

Then I played it with a rock band I'm in (Heather Duby). Again, the horn cut through the band, and I can finally hear myself even over electric guitars. Imagine my delight! (Sidenote: I used my Jo-Ral copper "wah-wah" mute extensive...wow!!! It's as if this horn and mute were made to be played together...)

I have yet to play the horn with my quintet (Jason Parker Quintet), but I can't wait!

As for the quality of the horn, I just can't say enough. The workmanship is top-notch, the matte finish which I bought is gorgeous (everyone has commented on this), and the horn feels so solid in my hands. The "Twin Tube" technology makes the whole horn buzz in a way that sends shivers down my spine.

As you can tell, I am in love with my new horn. I would encourage anyone in buy mode to search one of these puppies out before making your final decision. It may not be the horn for you, and it was the most expensive horn on the wall at Akright, but if you are fortunate enough to fall in love with it like Dave and myself, this horn will bring you much joy.

Again, big thanks to Dave for his guidance and super-friendly emails, and to Jimmie at Akright for letting me try so many of his horns.

Good luck in your continuing search!

Jason

_________________
Trumpets: Selmer Paris Concept TT
1946 Martin Committee
Mpcs: Schilke 14a4a (w/Selmer)
Bach 5C/24 Backbore (w/Martin)
Flugel: Courtois 154R (Bach 5C)

[ This Message was edited by: junkyt on 2004-01-12 14:14 ]

[ This Message was edited by: junkyt on 2004-01-12 14:15 ]

[ This Message was edited by: junkyt on 2004-01-12 14:16 ]

[ This Message was edited by: junkyt on 2004-01-12 16:48 ]

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:47 pm Post subject:

is it the difference between a large bore horn and a small bore horn?
i played the TT at Dillon's and i found it to be very resonant and i liked the sound.
but it's a large bore horn and I'm not sure i can play a large bore day in and day out.
i liked the sound in the store but i was afraid I'd get tired playing it daily.
i had fatigue problems with a large (.462) bore King and i switched to a ML bore because of that.
_________________
1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

junkyt · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:54 pm Post subject:

one thing to keep in mind when trying a larger bore than you're used to is that you should try a smaller mpc. fatigue is almost guaranteed if you use a larger mpc that works well with your smaller horn. for instance, i use a pretty big piece with my Martin (.453), a Back 5C with a 24 backbore, but with the Selmer (.463) i am using a Schilke 14a4a with great effect. the Schilke sounded very thin and weak with my Martin, but seems to be the perfect piece for the new horn.
_________________
Check out my new blog about the life of a working musician: OneWorkingMusician.com

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:02 pm Post subject:

The resonance has much to do with the bracing, BUT the low resistance does have to do with the relatively large bore (.463") and large (5") fast-flare bell. Notice that Jason is using a tight backbore for his rock and soul lead work. I'd really recommend that you find something with a little tighter backbore than your 5V. You can get a V-cup with other backbores, but you may have to move away from Bach to find that.

Another choice is to stick with the 5V and go with the Chorus 80J instead of the TT. It has much the same tonal character as the TT but it provides more resistance. The bell is smaller and I think that the leadpipe has more taper. Also, the 80J has a squared "conventional" main tuning slide rather than a rounded reverse, as on the TT. It's still a .463" bore, but it doesn't feel near as large as a TT. The 80J is certainly freer blowing than a Bach 180/37 or Yamaha Xeno 8335R. It's about like a Vintage One/#46, but with a rounder, less nasal tone than the V1. Because of the tighter bell the 80J has a more focused, less broad tone than the TT, which many might prefer.

Hope that helps.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:03 pm Post subject:

Oops, great minds think alike, at the same time.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Jazzalive · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject:

With my TT, after a pretty exhaustive search, I went with a Warburton 4MD with at M KT backbore... read, very tight backbore. It nicely balances the openess of the horn.

But I agree with others the TT is an amazing beast.

Trptbenge · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject:

Guys,

It would be nice if there were more places to try the Selmers. I know WWBW carries the Chorus 80J. I wish they carried the TT and the 90J - which also looks like an interesting animal with two slides. You all have got me excited about trying the horns. The only thing that scares me about the TT is that I am not an X3 fan. It would be great being at NAMM this week.

Mike

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject:

the 5V is my small mouthpiece.
i was playing a .462 King with a Monette B1-1.
i wanted a fat tone, but i got tired.
i went to a .460 and a 5V and the tone is thiner but i don't get so tired.
the TT is the best sounding horn i played.
i'll have to try it again with the tighter mouthpiece.

Jazzalive · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject:

Try musicalinstruments.com out of Long Isand. They are the ones I placed my original TT order with, but they sent me the Chorus instead. Maybe you'll have better luck.

As to WWBW, they told me they could get a TT, but it could take up to 6 months to get one in stock.

I agree with an earlier post from Dave, seems the US market is not a priority for the France based Selmer-Paris folks.

_________________
TC

Bb: Selmer-Paris Concept TT
Front end: Warburton 4MD/B KT Backbore and 4SV/KT Backbore

[ This Message was edited by: Jazzalive on 2004-01-13 00:11 ]

X3L · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject:

Trptbenge · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:46 am Post subject:

John,

I am sorry I didn't mean to insult the X3. Let me rephrase that. The X3 has not worked well for me. But I play a Kanstul B3C (Bach 3C) top and a Warburton 6* BB. I need more resistance to push agains't. I tend to like the B1 or the B5 model Schilke.

Mike

X3L · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:44 am Post subject:

Hi Mike,

No need to apologize, I had a hunch that what was you meant and was just razzin' you. I know exactly what you mean about needing something to push against. My X3L is a great one (1974 vintage that seems handmade from Reynold himself) yet it can be a very taxing instrument to play from an air support requirement perspective.

Interestingly, I picked up a B1 recently on ebay and expected it to be the answer to my prayers. It's a very good player, yet lacks a big sound like my X3L. Also, it tends to back up on me while playing in the upper register. I'm hoping that I have solved that problem, as I have had a leadpipe and mouthpiece receiver made up by GR for this horn. If Reynold were still alive, I'd hope that he'd understand...after all, Gary Radtke used to be one his students.

Best wishes on finding a horn as good as my X3L,

John MacGregor
Waukesha, WI

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:10 am Post subject:

Try a GR with the #1 backbore with that X3L, OR a small cup with the #2 backbore, like either a 66S or 66MS. That's a great horn. If you can find the right mpc you'll have your cake and eat it too.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Trptbenge · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:05 am Post subject:

After a lot of consideration on my playing style and need of resistance. I decided to check out the Selmer Chorus 80J. I went to the Woodwind and Brasswind website and it had a call for price note under price. So, I called. The Silver, which is the only one in stock is
$1,890. Just for the heck of it I asked what the lacquer would be once it came in and the guy said $1,688. $200 seems more then a normal gap between Lacquer and Silver. I have put a request in to be notifed when the lacquer version is back in stock. I was going to get the Silver but the price difference is significant enough. Plus the lacquer looks more like the tradional Selmer look. I wish I lived closer so I could try the horn.

Mike

_dcstep · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:09 am Post subject:

Those prices are as good as I've heard. I haven't seen a silver 80J or TT yet, so that might be unusual. I agree that the differential seems large, but those prices are about $100 less than I've seen in general.

I actually thinking that I might try to purchase a 900TT C over the next year. If I do, I'll probably get in silver since orchestra conductors tend to stick their noses into what you're playing. In silver, it wouldn't look like a Selmer so much. (A look that I love, BTW).
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

David Oulton · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:13 am Post subject:

What do you buy after a Wild Thing? Well, my cohort bought a Concept TT. His note below is in response to the links on TH that I sent him on the Concept TT:

_dcstep · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:32 am Post subject:

Hmm, thanks for posting that David.

I thought that I raved on about the TT resonance, dynamics and big broad-shouldered tone. Well, sometimes what we write doesn't connect with others and it's mainly a matter of word choice and different interpretations of the words. Anyway, the more times the same thing is said in different ways the better off we are, since more people will connect.

FWIW, the Chorus 80J has more "core" than the TT. The TT is "broader" and the 80J is more "focused". This is not surprising, given the considerably larger bell on the TT. They both have the same tonal character and emphasize the same primary overtones.

BTW, I just had a new 180/37 and a Stomvi USA (a review to come) in for comparison. They're nice horns, BUT response, intonation, build quality, valves, etc. of the Selmer Paris are all at least one or two orders of excellence better. (It costs more, so it should be better).

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

pvtmp · New Member Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 1 Location: Peter

I was in Montreal Canada 2 weeks ago and tried 8 pro horns at Twiggs Music for a couple of hours thanks to Pascal Twigg. The getzen was better than the Xeno. The MF was nice too, as was the Leblanc. Without the attachments the
Conn Vintage was number 2 with attachments it dropped to bottom of the list. I kept coming back to the Selmer Paris TT as it played like my Wild Thing except it gave me back the live bell of my former Bach 72 Bell Strad. The TT is a horn to try, (after the "Wild Thing" it is very tough to play a trumpet again). After 20 mouthpieces to try and balance the wild thing with my chops I agree you need a tighter backbore on the piece with the WT but I'm not willing to give up sound by going to a shallower cup. I have had lots of success with the GR5MX piece and am gradually building more endurance. The combo of the Paris TT with the GR5mx produces range, power, pure ringing sound,sweetness at pp, flexibility, and projection power at ff, and pure tone that I have been unable to match with anything else. Above A on the staff the Wild Thing is still king for projection and holding the vibrations together (providing your a LEAD PLAYER ON A SMALL PIECE). If you love the Wild Thing as I do , you'll worship the TT. Flip has moved us into a new world with the WT and the Paris Selmer TT has become the merging of the Trumpet and the Wild Thing. My buddy laughed when he saw the comment that the TT was a large bore as he also plays the Wild Thing on a GR66LX piece. I've never posted on Flip's site as I am a critical critic and have been playing th WT exclusively for 2 years (1.5 yrs on 2 slide and 6 months on 1 slide) so I wanted to be sure before I spoke. In the end I've found the perfect horn with the TT. However the WT will come out for the big jazz/classical solos in the middle range where I want the super fat sound, but because of the bell ring the TT will be my horn of choice. Peers noticed the WT but they really noticed the TT. For endurance Brian Scriver suggested a small change to 2 backbore from 3 on the GR65mx which I haven't tried as it is getting made right now. This is my first post as I couldn't resist adding my 2 cents. I didn't know there were other trumpet fanatics out there. I've been playing for about 30 years now with a 5 year break, mostly solo trpt in a 70 piece concert band and jazz chair with many big bands and in a rock band , some quintet,orchestra and wind ensemble work. Thanks, Peter

_dcstep · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:31 am Post subject:

Welcome to TH, Peter, it's a great place. Besides having great taste in trumpets I see that you're also a financial consultant. I am also, specializing derivative use to hedge various interest rate and commodity risks.

I can't put my Concept TT down either.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest