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Do I need teeth to play trumpet?


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tp2038
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Do I need teeth to play trumpet? Reply with quote

I went to a dentist for check-up and cleaning. My dentist said I would loose teeth by 80 if I do not take care of my teeth.

A question came into my mind. Does anybody need teeth to play a trumpet?

Do you know a player without teeth? Would false teeth work? Or impants? Are implants strong enough to withstand mouthpiece pressure?

Do you think the time to quit a trumpet is when we lose teeth?

I am simply curious.
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david mickley
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

listen to later recordings of Chet Baker. you would have to work on a new embouchure but it can and has been done.
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nwtrumpet
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:42 am    Post subject: Do I need teeth to play trumpet? Reply with quote

I've been playing with full dentures since 1978. It took about a year to learn to play efficently with dentures, so yes, it can be done.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roy Eldridge had dentures at age 17. Didn't seem to slow him down.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard that people have had mixed results with implants. Some love them. Others have had problems, particularly with uppers due to the proximity of sinuses. My dentist is quite conservative and is not in favor of them. Best to get several professional opinions - and set aside a lot of money. They're not cheap.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just start taking care of your teeth??? IMO, that would be much better than having to find out...
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dershem
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I studied with Red Rodney. If anyone knew about playing without teeth, it would be Red, and much of what he taught me was technique - specifically playing with as little pressure as possible, using muscle and air and efficiency. And he was very clear that teeth are necessary. He was also very clear to me that I should take better care of my teeth, among other things.
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lnmln
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of years ago I broke my front tooth (a little under 3/4ths was broken) and another one off to the side. The front tooth had to have a post and crown put on. While the dental work was being done I had a temporary hard plastic crown on it (it didn't use a cement to hold it in just a tacky substance) and right before a gig the temp decided to come off and break so I ended up playing the gig my front tooth missing and there wasn't any problems. So I my experience you can play with missing teeth, and fake teeth.

If I were you I would just take care of my teeth. Having the post and crown put on took around 8 months of back and forth, between 3 root canals (had to go in twice for the front tooth), having the crown fitted correctly, color, missing a lot of gigs, plus the down time from the horn...Bottom line is taking care of your teeth is a lot easier and a lot cheaper.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we ought to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. Sounds to me like he is trying to take care of his teeth. Why else would he go for a checkup and cleaning.

FWIW, IMHO, a truly helpful reply would have more Humble and less Opinion.
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2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
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RobS
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I happen to be a denturist which is a qualified profession in the Netherlands. I do treat musicians and they are mostly able to play. The most important thing is to have a checkup every other year so the fit and the total height of the dentures can be checked. Because after you loose your teeth the bone structure and shape of the upper and lower jaw keeps changing (shrinking as you will).
Implants are part of the standard health care in Holland from the moment you have lost all your teeth and therefore very often applied(?). I would recommend lower implants for anybody who is edentulous even if you are not a player but just because it gives you endless better functioning. When a conventional upper denture does not work for you it is possible to take upper implants too. But it s a harder and more difficult procedure and for most people not necessary.
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OCTA-C
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a severe oral infection of still unknown etiology, I ended up losing all my teeth. As a pratitioner of superb hygiene I was devestated. But, after much research I decided on implants. Not mini's, but regular size. Trust me, this is the only way to go for satisfaction and proper function. Whether it be for one tooth or several. I had mine done through the local university dental school with a new procedure. Sixteen implants with basically two teeth on each. Large sinus issues are not a problem anymore due to the various size implants. They feel like regular teeth on your gums but remember they are still not a substitute for the originals. Just make sure, if anyone needs implants, make sure you do your research and find the right oral surgeon, who also works along with the prostodontist, to do the proper job.
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Implants and Harry James Reply with quote

In 1968 I was playing with Harry James and we were scheduled to record the Phase 4 record called "The Golden Trumpet of Harry James", at the time state of the art was London Phase 4 and no less than Tutti Camarata was the producer. Unknown to the band, Harry had full lower implants done four days prior to the recording. We sort of wondered why he was only doing one take on everything, but it was the road band re-recording his hits in new sound and we played everything all the time without thinking much about it. The only thing Harry asked for another take on was "A Train" which Harry soloed first and played some lead over the section on the out chorus. On the second take Harry didn't play the lead part but got another good solo in and we played through the entire chart minus Harry's lead. Guess which take Tutti used? Before the session started Tutti asked Harry to "have the guys tune up". Harry's response [in a less than a kind way was, "this band just plays, they don't tune up". Maybe it was intentional, maybe not. One thing for certain though, Harry played with those implants like nothing happened.
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can play with no teeth or dentures in at all but you would need to radical change the way you play! Have you ever seen what a mans face looks like with no teeth or dentures in???? The teeth change the shape of the entire face and thus the resting position of the muscles that are in the face. So at the very least I would try to keep at the minimum dentures in my mouth. In fact Geroge Washington would either wear his teeth or stuff his mouth with cotton for painting because with out his false teeth or cotton in his mouth it altered his appearance drastically! Their is one painting that is thought to be him with no dentures in and no stuffing in his mouth and the difference in appearance is drastic! Anything that alter the size and shape of a sound chamber or room is going to affect the sound of the trumpet and the mouth,throat and sinus's make up part of the trumpet by default as a lip read instrument.

I still have all my teeth but if I had dental insurance I would have them all yanked! I have great teeth but bad gums! The Army had me on strong medication for no reason really from childhood that I should never have been on or should have come off of after say 1 year instead they left me on it for 13 years I just feel through the cracks! It damaged my gums badly so in spite of excellent dental hygiene and flossing I have gum disease! easiest way to cure gum disease is to get rid of the teeth! So the subject of dental appliances and playing is something I have always taken an interest in! i would not let them put braces on me as a kid because my playing was more important to me then perfectly straight teeth!
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
I think we ought to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. Sounds to me like he is trying to take care of his teeth. Why else would he go for a checkup and cleaning.

FWIW, IMHO, a truly helpful reply would have more Humble and less Opinion.

Reading the post literally and not assuming anything, I cannot come to the same conclusion. If I were to guess, I'd assume the trip to the dentist was because something was either hurting, broken or there was a problem, not a normal or routine appointment as stated. Again, assuming from what I read, it sounds like the dentist was giving the OP a warning, and assuming yet even further, one would have to conclude that the dentist felt it necessary to warn him to either take care of his teeth or lose them. I've not gotten that warning from my guy- how about the rest of you? BTW- I can't really see where offering the advice of taking care of one's teeth is necessarily an opinion... It supports the professional's warning.
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cjl
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Do I need teeth to play trumpet? Reply with quote

Before you all start berating the original poster regarding the care of his teeth, it might pay to read his post more carefully; in particular:
tp2038 wrote:
I am simply curious.

I agree - it is an interesting question that I didn't know the answer to before reading this thread.

And while I do take care of my teeth, I never get away from the dentist without the hygenist telling me to do a better job. I think that it is part of their job to always try to get you to do better.

If you can keep your teeth until you are 80, I think you've done a pretty good job!

-- Joe
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DaveH
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disclaimer...I am not a dentist and know absolutely nothing about dentistry...however,
I think it might be possible to take good care of one's teeth, yet still possibly suffer tooth loss, especially in older years.

For example, does one's genetics play a role? I heard somewhere that, as in other aspects of health, some people are more prone to certain kinds of health problems than others, and this includes dental health. For example, could it be possible than even in spite of good oral hygiene, tooth loss could still eventually happen? I've had good dental care for most of my life, yet I am certain that I will eventually lose some molars.

Also, some older people, including myself, may not have had the benefit of modern technologies for long term dental prevention. I have many fillings in my molars, although it seems my incisors are still pretty good and unfilled. Some of these fillings are old and wearing out. In some cases they are not replaceable due to size.

I can see the eventual loss of some molars...hopefully however, I can hold on to my front teeth, which seem to have the greatest influence on trumpet playing, as far as I know...
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tp2038
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Craig Swartz"][quote="jhatpro"].....assuming from what I read, it sounds like the dentist was giving the OP a warning, and assuming yet even further, one would have to conclude that the dentist felt it necessary to warn him to either take care of his teeth or lose them. .......quote]

I am taking care of my teeth. My dentist conviced me that I also have to take care of gums because gums hold teeth. I found taking care of gums is more difficult than taking care of teeth. I should have said of gums instead of teeth.

After reading the posts, there are many ways (accidents, diseases, illness, etc.) to lose teeth. I am glad to know of successful examples with false teeth and implants.

I just do not want to stop playing horns.

Thanks.

I cannot get rid of plaques by flossing and brushing.
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Kofipoiss
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an article about Tomasz Stanko at http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/culture/2010/08/274631/city-portraits-tomasz-stankos-new-york-songbook
If you are by his music, there is also a little nice video with him speaking and playing a little bit.
About losing his teeth, the article says:

"THEN HIS TEETH BEGAN TO FALL OUT. In 1992, Stanko had to cancel a tour because he could no longer play. This is every trumpet players nightmare. Sure, you can get a false set. But it changes the embouchure that you have spent decades perfecting. Some great trumpet players who have lost their teeth and replaced them say they have never fully regained their technique or their old comfort on their instrument.

In Stankos case, things turned out differently. He got new teeth and regained his glory by playing hours of long tones while watching television. He particularly enjoyed observing tennis matches while practicing this way."

So, after Chet Baker and Tomasz Stanko and probably many others (my music school teacher also) it definitely is possible! But then, why not take care of your teeth and try to avoid losing them
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Robert Rowe
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had a few (upper) teeth knocked loose and cracked from a construction accident. Much dental repair work ensued. One tooth is still troublesome. Oral surgeon suggested implant replacement. I'm still mulling it over. Cost? One tooth - - $2500 (no insurance).

BTW -- I play the organ and several stringed-instruments, as well. Nice "insurance" (and fun, too).



Robert
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: No teeth Reply with quote

A short while ago I made a series [six total] of Harry James replica trumpets based on the King Silver Sonic Super 20's that Harry was playing when I was on his band. A fellow in Egypt bought one of the horns and contacted me later wondering if I could supply him with a mouthpiece so that "I can sound like Harry James". He went on to tell me that he didn't have any teeth and played on his gums...
Tony Scodwell
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