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CG personal diameter?!?



 
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Martin
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Joined: 18 Nov 2001
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Location: Vienna/Austria

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a recent thread about alternatives to a Bach 3C, John Mohan posted about his CG Personal mouthpiece.
John states that his mouthpiece has a rather wide rim and roughly the the diameter of a Bach 7. That´s what I´ve heard, too, and what can be seen on the Kanstul Comparator.

However, I recently bought a CG Personal (Kanstul made, I believe - it just says CGP on it), and it is nothing like that. In fact, it is about the size of a Bach 1 1/2 C and has a round, rather narrow rim.
Exactly the piece Jeff Purtle describes here:

http://www.purtle.com/jeff_equipment.html

I´m not complaining, it´s a very nice mouthpiece - but I was just wondering which version is "the real thing"...
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Martin
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"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt
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pfrank
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Joined: 21 Feb 2002
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Location: Boston MA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan Might have been talking about the "Mohan Personal" which Kanstul makes and sells. The CG Personal has a very narrow rim, but I'd call it closer to a Bach 5 or 7 in size. The throat is a 22, not the 20 that Mr. P reports.

[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2003-08-15 15:18 ]
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Martin
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Joined: 18 Nov 2001
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Location: Vienna/Austria

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfrank,

John was definitely referring to the Claude Gordon model, not his own design. And if you look at the Kanstul Comparator, the CGP should be pretty identical to a Bach 7.
Mine isn´t, though. Much bigger.

BTW, I think you´re correct about the throat size.
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Martin
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"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt
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vic
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Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 137
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a CGP earlier this year for my cornet, then got the trumpet model for consistency. The closest match to this one on the Kanstul Comparator is the Warburton 4XD, or extra deep. Their web site says, "XD - This extra deep "V" style cup was designed to give the traditional cornet sound. Herbert L. would be thrilled with this model."
That is why I sought it for my cornet, and it does give a mellow tone, in addition to having a nice comfortable rim.
The rim on the K-comparator looks closer to the Bach 5 family to me. But the numbers are so close that I really think you have to go by the feel of them.
The C. Gordon web site has a write-up on the mouthpieces, and it does say 22 throat. I read somewhere you can see him in the band on "I Love Lucy." If I had known, I would have watched closer when my wife watched all those reruns!

[ This Message was edited by: vic on 2003-08-18 08:45 ]
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Jerry
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Joined: 20 Jan 2002
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Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CG Personal trumpet mouthpiece I own is stamped "C.G. Personal" and I got mine at the Kanstul factory. (While I waited to have mine gold-plated, they gave me a tour of the factory--really cool.)

I would guess that mine is similar in width to a Bach 7. It is certainly not as wide as a Bach 1.5

[ This Message was edited by: Jerry on 2003-08-17 07:40 ]
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again,

I have had in my possession about 20 different CG Personals since Claude designed it. They have all been very consistant in size. I'm very surprized by the assertions of several people now (including Jeff Purdle) that this mouthpiece has a cup diameter comparable to a Bach 1 1/2 C. By observing the data on the Kanstul Comparator and by making my own measurements of the inner cup diameter, I've found that the closest match to this mouthpiece is a New York Back 7. I even bought a New York Bach 7 on eBay last year to personally compare them.

Now, on the other hand, the CG Personal and the Bach 1 1/2 C do have similar outer rim diameters. This is due to the fairly wide rim on the CG Personal. This allows different inner cup diameters, with similar outer rim diameters.

Lastly, one person contended that I might have been refering to the Mohan mouthpieces (available to compare on the Kanstul Comparator and available for purchase from Kanstul). I was not referring to those - although I could have been since their rims and inner cup diameters are exactly the same as the CG Personals. I designed them for two purposes:

1) To yield a brighter sound than what you get with the CG Personal

2) For players who normally use the CG Personal to use when playing Piccolo or Eb Trumpet.

Someday, I'll probably get together again with Jim New at Kanstul and work up larger diameter versions of the CG Personal and my own two mouthpieces. It's ironic that I can't play my own designs, as they are just slightly too small in inner-cup diameter for me!

For me, I find that the Bob Reeves 43C works quite well for commercial music. It's just the stock model with the stock 26 throat and Reeves #2 Backbore. Though not advertised as such, the stock Reeves 43 C comes with a 26 throat, not a 28 throat like his shallow-depth mouthpieces. And the Reeves #2 (stock) backbore is slightly bigger than a stock Bach backbore.

For legit-style playing, I have a Reeves 43B made up with his largest backbore (the #3) and a 25 throat. This is similar to a CG Personal, in that it is a fairly deep modified V-Shape cup.

For true legit playing (fairly rare at present for me since I'm on tour Rockin' & Rollin' with "Grease"), I use an exact copy of the Mount Vernon Bach 1 made for me by Kanstul. And for really demanding Orchestral stuff (range-wise) I use an old Bach 1C. These are basically what Herseth used throughout almost all of his career. There's just nothing like the tone and sound you get with a Mount Vernon Bach 1! And there is a certain tonality that you can only get with a Bach mouthpiece or a good Bach clone.

Another tidbit of semi-interesting trivia: The Schilke 19 is pretty much an exact duplicate of the Mount Vernon Bach 1. Also, the current Bach 1X is a copy of the Mount Vernon Bach 1.

Okay, I wrote much more than most people probably want to read at this point!

All for now,

John Mohan
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