Bach bell shapes

[hose]

Does anyone know the differences in the various bell shapes of Bachs? Is the 72 a difference shape/flair than the 37 for example? Fast taper-- slow taper?
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Dave Wisner

Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet

[cheiden]

The Bach bell numbers specifically do indicate the specific shape including flare.
http://www.bachbrass.com/pdf/Suggestions_For_Choosing_Trumpet.pdf

Of the most common Bach bell flares, in general:
The 72 is considered the darkest
The 37 the most typical "compact" sound
The 43 the brightest

Lots of other factors like bell weight, bell material, body weight and leadpipe shape will significantly affect the perceived sound.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Brad361]

[quikv6]

I believe the 65 is considered the darkest.

As for the brightest, it actually may be the 38 or the 25.
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-Chris

[Dale Proctor]

Here's another analysis of the effect of different Bach bells:

http://www.bachloyalist.com/trumpet/trumpet_bells.htm

Generally, the faster the taper, the more mellow tone and less projection a horn has, and the slower the taper, the brighter tone and better projection a horn has. As to the actual tapers of the various Bach bells, I don't think I've ever seen a quantitative comparison, but the relative rates of taper can probably be deduced by their playing characteristics.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Trptbenge]

My understanding has always been that the 65 is the darkest and the 43 bell the brightest. The 65 bell is not a popular bell and perhaps it is too dark. The next darkest is the 72 bell and it is a good all-around bell.

Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference!

[hose]

Thanks for the replies. I found those sites, also. I'm trying to compare a nice playing American made horn (that I think may be an attempt at a 37 "copy") with a 72* that I own. The "copy" has a wider bell flair and darker sound (or faster taper) than my 72*. I can find results based comments on web sites. I just wondered what the actual comparison of tapers were with the Bach line-up. I don't have a 37 to compare. The 72* is a slower/narrower taper than what I was predicting might be my 37 "copy". I wonder if the 72 is adifferent taper than the 72*. I doubt it. Just thinner gauge brass. I'm trying to determine for myself if this new American made horn is more of a Bach knock-off or a legitimate design of their own. I'm just curious. It's a good player which would be all most people would care about. But this is TH...
_________________
Dave Wisner

Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet

[Capt.Kirk]

The 37 is considered the most popular "slow" taper the slow indicating that flair starts later into the bell...... The slowest bell tapers have what looks like a flat flair like what you see on some Pic's.....

Fast Tapers start soon so you start to see a faster deviation from the center line of the bells bore in the most radical case's long before the throat of the bell. The more funnel shaped a bell as in the bell flair versus the bells center line cannot be distinctly located the faster the taper.

You can have any combination of throat and flair and in the not so distant past you saw a lot of variation..... Today everyone seems to go for the soft market and copies Bach so you see almost no variation today..... You can have a tight throat and fast taper or a medium or large throat and fast taper and the same with slow taper's....Today it is almost stereotypical if you see a fast taper it is a large throat and if you see a slow taper it is a medium to tight thraot and so on......

TO see a example of slow and fast at the extremes the Monette Prana III and Taylor Chicago both have extremely slow tapers tot he flair. IF you look at the Monette Salmaldi(sp) it has a fast funnel like taper with a huge throat.

The 72 is the most popular fast taper bell in common use in America currently. It is not that fast though it is just fast for the current trend and for Bach offerings.

I might get this back wards but I think this is the right way to explain it. The faster tapers reflect more high freq. and brighten the sound and the opposite is true of fast tapers. So the faster bells have warmer, darker sounds in general.

It is important to add that it is not just one factor....You have to take the rest of the bell into account but th flair shape can be used to balance out the rest of the bell. The flair can also be extended and some tubing shortened up elsewhere to shift the slotting point up for the horn.
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The only easy day was yesterday!

[Dale Proctor]

[Capt.Kirk]

Thanks I was in Chemistry Lab to 10PM then when I made it home I had to crank out some killer hard math problems. We did not have power then we did not have internet connection that was reliable you would have it one minute then not for a few hours. The math heavy chemistry problems where on an online home work program.....I only had to 11:59 to get them done....So my brain is fried......So thanks for the fix I am even worse then normal tonight.

I posted a Bach PDF link that I hope will clear some of this up for some. I use it as my reference because well Bach is kind of the gold standard in the USA even if I hate how they combo their horn parts. I am not a good writer I know this I am a good speaker. So I thought I would let Bach do the explaining it has a nice little bit about their use of gold brass as well as nice dotted and solid line drawing to explain taper's.

It is a really basic overly simplified document but it is well written which is something I am not good at!
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The only easy day was yesterday!