Leadpipe and other modifications...

livertwist · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:22 am Post subject:

Hi.

I'm learning more and more every day on these boards about horns, people, and practically everything else - thanks for that. I'm a little stumped as far as some modifications are concerned though. I've never tried any horns that have been "worked on" in any way and I'm wondering what exactly they do. My understanding is that, depending on the horn, your leadpipe will either be a relatively consistent taper or virtually no taper at all. When it arrives at the bow of the tuning slide, generally it reaches it's "bore point" (an expression I just made up). Some horns will have different bores throughout the horn, some maintain consistent. I have heard of a wide variety of mods, from leadpipes to waterkeys to bracing to tunable bells to heavy caps to single-radius slides. What I don't quite understand is what each one of these mods do. I suppose I just don't understand the physics behind them... maybe someone can enlighten me. Also, what (in everyone's esteemed opinion) is the single-most valuable for the effort/price mod is you can perform on a horn?

Thanks.

Oliver

trumpetmike · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:41 am Post subject:

I was slightly sceptical about some of the modifications that people have done to their trumpets, then I had my leadpipe replaced – I am now a convert!!
I have also experimented with other people’s trumpets with tuneable bells. The difference is quite incredible. Some of the time it is a change in tone, others in projection, the tuning may change, there doesn’t seem to be an exact formula available yet, but I know that people are working on it.
As soon as I can afford it I am having a couple of my instruments heavily customised, with a tuneable bell system, so I should be able to alternate any Bb or C bell with either instrument. My local repairman has got this system on his trumpets and it seems very effective. He has also developed a lovely system of interchangeable leadpipes. This will be on my list of modifications as well.
The changing of leadpipe from my normal Yamaha to the Najoom was amazing. I wouldn’t have thought that such a small bit of metal could make such a difference, but everything has improved – tuning, range, power, tone – it’s fantastic.
If you are able to try a modified trumpet. Take it.
If you like it, try it on your own, if you can find a superb repairer to carry out the work!
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Yamaha Bb 6335HS (Najoom leadpipe)
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Scherzer G
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Bruce Lee · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:20 am Post subject:

Oliver,

Well... this is a LOADED topic! Modifications made to an existing trumpet are done to help achieve a desired "feel" for the individual player. Purchasing or trying a trumpet that has been modified is fine, however... keep in mind that it was altered to match the player who owns or owned it. Finding one that works means that you both desire a common "feel". IF you choose to make a modification to your trumpet, keep in mind that as any one aspect changes, changes must be made in other areas to maintain a "balance". Balance is what is right for you, in terms of "feel"!

Knowing what modifications need to be made should be done through a "highly qualified" repairman, or designer, who understands you, and what it is, specifically, that you are trying to achieve. Get a second or third opinion. While some modifications are not permanent, in nature, they can be costly. Others can be permanent... for example, opening a venturi... and only reversed by replacing the leadpipe, which may, or may not match the horn as closely as the original. So, use caution!!!

Many times, when a used horn shows up in the marketplace, or on eBay, there is a very good chance that the reason the horn ended up there was because modifications exceeded needs. Or, that the horn was "pre-modified", and was nowhere near the original spec's for the horn.

Since it's obvoius that there are many choices available to help you accomplish the right "feel", perhaps it would be more beneficial to pose a question about how to accomplish that by describing the equipment that you are using... horn, mouthpiece, along with your experience as a player, the type of playing that you do most, and see the responses. I would be glad to help you off board, if you would like. I hope that this helps!

Best always,
Bruce
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TopGun · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 456

Trumpetmike,

What is the Najoom?

Thanks,
TopGun

trumpetmike · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:59 pm Post subject:

Najoom - Dennis Najoom, Co-principal Trumpet of the Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra and maker of fantastic leadpipes!
Do a search for them on this forum, masses of info.
More info can be found on his website, http://www.najoom.com.

jhatpro · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 2:30 pm Post subject:

Dennis is evaluating my 1959 Olds Recording now as a candidate for one of his leadpipes. I'll keep you posted on the outcome.
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mfan · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:03 pm Post subject:

My trumpet professor at ECU had a 37 Strad. with a Blackburn leadpipe on it. Soon after a lot of guys in the studio also got Blackburn leadpipes on their horns. They were all very pleased with the outcomes. If I recall correctly one of the guys was even sent several leadpipes so that he could try them all out. I forget how, but he rigged his horn somehow so that he could play the old leadpipe then rotate through the other ones on his horn and pick his favorite. Anyway, just my two cents.
-Collin

drunkiq · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:58 pm Post subject:

Livertwist,

Welcome to the good and bad world of conversion questions….

First off start reading this articles to understand how it is all put together… farther down I will list two conversion shops, one of them explains what to expect from the convertion better then most of the pages…

Practical Physics for Trumpeters and Teachers
by Renold O. Schilke

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Practical%20Physics.html

Leader Pipe and Its Function
by Renold O. Schilke

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Leader%20Pipe.html

Dimensional Characteristics of Brass Mouthpieces
by Renold O. Schilke

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Mouthpiece%20Dimensions.html

Schilke Brass Clinic
The Physics of Inner Brass and the Acoustical Effects of
Various Materials and Their Treatment
By Renold O. Schilke

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Brass%20Clinic.html

Conversions shops:

A “minor” Tune UP
He has some pretty good info on what each conversion will actually do and it’s function, also has some of the more popular ones listed….
http://aminortuneup.com/custom.htm

Laskey and the imfamous Ron Pinc trumpet conversions:

http://www.laskey.com/trumpet%20conversion.html

There are a lot of conversion shops out there so ask around if you decide to actually have any work done to yours first

I have also done a couple of minor conversions that worked out well for me – read this link to see what I have done and then check out this thread and get read to read the price tag:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=10908&forum=7&16

if you want before and after pictures my web site is:

http://www.geocities.com/drunkiq/

before even considering any type of conversion you should ask yourself the following questions

1. What do I not like about my current horn
2. Is there a different solution besides cutting up my favorite horn – trust me not everyone in happy after a converse
3. Is there a different horn out there that speaks to you better than your current one rather then taking a gamble like this?
4. what are the overall pro’s and cons of the conversion?
5. how easy will it be to undo the conversion if you hate it.

Read all this stuff – most questions are related to only one conversion type and not many on the posts we get here.. I figure if you have a concept of how the trumpet woks and then read a couple of these conversion shop pages, then you may do ok…

If not come back and ask some more questions…

Sorry for all the bad misspellings – as many of you know I am down another 8 months from my last back surgery and am very drugged up…

you may have to copy and paste the url's (web page links) - to tired to put in all the proper code for you..

Hope this helps,
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-Marc
A Schilke Loyalist
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