DIY chemical cleaning?

wades · Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:37 pm Post subject:

Has anyone ever tried a do-it-yourself chemical cleaning? What sorts of chemicals are involved?

_Don Herman · Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:55 pm Post subject:

Try this: http://www.hornflush.com

HTH! - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

trumpet manor · Veteran Member Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Posts: 102

Does anyone know if vinegar will harm any part of a trumpet in any way?

_Don Herman · Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:18 pm Post subject:

The Horn Flush link, and parent Best Products link, seems to be down. Try this one: http://www.giardinelli.com/srs7/sid=030820221417065178192075445390/g=home/search/detail/base_id/95952

I have no idea if vinegar is better or worse. It's an acid, as is Horn Flush, and most chemical cleaning agents (not sure what they use in the ultrasonic tanks, though I know Wayne at the Brass Bow is quite knowledgeable and spent time finding chemicals with no or minimal harm potential). Any acid can cause problems if left in contact with the horn for too long. If you try vinegar, use white.

HTH - Don

p.s. The kit is only $14 at the link above (Giardinelli's having a sale). That's a great price! (No, I get nothing for this... I think I get something if I gave you my code, which I've forgotten, and you bought at the Horn Flush website, which is down. My luck is consistent.

)
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[ This Message was edited by: Don Herman on 2003-08-21 00:20 ]

_FELIX C · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:46 am Post subject:

Dear friend:
I found excellent reuslts with the Simple Green Lime Scale Remover. It comes in 32 oz Triger bottle, here in Puerto Rico A bottle (32Oz ) only cost $5.81 in a local Grainger store. I clean perfectly my two silver trumpets with a medium hard brush. I have never seen this reults before. Here is the link: Thanks
http://www.simplegreen.com/products/consumer/household2.html

_________________
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3X+ 1987 USA BENGE
3FL 1985 USA BENGE FLUGELHORN
GIARDINELLI 6C & 6M MOUTHPIECE
BACH 3CFL MOUTHPIECE
THE PEACE OF GOD BE WITH ALL OF YOU

[ This Message was edited by: FELIX C on 2003-08-21 07:49 ]

wades · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:49 am Post subject:

Sorry I'm so late in replying to this thread I started.

I was actually toying with the idea of getting some hydrochloric acid, which is commonly available here in Florida as a swimming pool chemical. I was wondering what pH a horn cleaner should be.

I seem to remember hearing someplace that commercial cleaners use chromic acid, which is a seriously corrosive substance: I used to use it as a laboratory glass cleaner. It's made by mixing concentrated sulphuric acid with potassium dichromate, and has the property that it will digest almost anything organic. I wouldn't want to mess with it at home though.

drunkiq · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:44 pm Post subject:

CLR for the inside.... nasty stuff, - rinse really good - soak in cold water for a wile to get it all out and re-rinse...

this same basic junk ingrediants that the pro's use but can be bought almost anywhere...

-marc

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887

A good way to clean the valve slides is to put some BB's in them, some soap, and then, shake (not stir) vigorously. This methos really seems to get the hardened green deposits out of the valve slides.

You can also buy a powder from Ferree's Tools, which you can soak your horn in ( after rehydrating). In fact, if you were to soak first, and then use the BB's that would probably work better. As far as getting at the more accesible areas, then you can just use a brush.

mulligan stew · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1846

I wouldn't put bb's in a horn--too high-impact. As drunkIQ says, CLR works great and is what many horn manufacturers use...I soaked fairly clean-looking valves in some for 2 minutes recently and was appalled at the amount of green residue that floated off.

wades · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:38 am Post subject:

Excuse my ignorance. What's CLR?

Thanks.

drunkiq · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:09 am Post subject:

go find it at your local hardware store or grocery store...

-marc

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887

Mulligan,

I didn't mean to imply that you should be shooting BB's into the horn...but for cleaning green deposits that are otherwise impossible to get out without using chemicals, BB's will do the trick...and if not shot into your horn, but just put in a valve slide and shaken, they won't harm your horn. Ferree's Tools actually sells special balls for this purpose, but they are expensive...so for .99 you can go to Wal Mart and buy a small package of BB's instead.

wades · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:46 am Post subject:

mulligan stew · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1846

Irving--i know you didn't mean shoot bb's into your horn...heh! but still, I would not advocate this approach, since totally harmless chemical approaches are plentiful and easy to come by.

mulligan stew · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1846

on CLR--I would limit it to the actual interior of the horn (pour a small amount in each slide, in the bell crook, etc.) and soak ONLY the valve piston itself in it, without getting it on anything else. Anytime you clean your valves you should disassemble them anyway on not get felts, cork, etc. wet.

I have had very good results with this method.

drunkiq · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:46 am Post subject:

agreee with mulligan stew....

only the inside of the horn!!!

be prepared, for when you rinse the clr out your horn.... it will not be pretty, gunk everywhere..... it is really strong stuff... rinse the horn out in cold water reallly good - then clean up the bath tub......

I actually let mine soak in the tub (after cleaning up the mess it left behind) for a few minutes and re-rinsed it out again, because the horn still smelled like clr... you should not be able to smell any clr when you are done in your horn... if you still can then keep rinsing it out....

I have done this once... It was nasty... the chemical is nasty, the clean up was nasty.... of course it was a horn that had not been cleaned in 2-3 years!....

maybe yours won't be so bad.... all I know is that I just have the guys at the local shop do it for me once a year now on my horns, but if i was broke, yeah - clr is cheap....

-marc

Bootleg · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:40 pm Post subject:

CLR? cool....i never knew...that...i guess i could get a bottle and clean out my trumpet....feels kinda sluggish right now...is that the reason why? or is it just me?
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"If brute force doesn't solve your problem, then you're not using enough!"

trptdaddy · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:32 am Post subject:

Having bought many used horns on ebay that needed some heavy duty cleaning, I've tried dishwashing liquid, CLR, CLR Bathroom Strength (more diluted and soapy than regular), white vinegar, Simple Green, Lime Away and maybe some other stuff. I've had best success with CLR. I pour it into a spray bottle that is clearly marked so it's not reused without rinsing. On silver and raw brass horns, I spray it on the outside and clean the slides, etc in the tub over the horn body. It all takes just a few minutes and then I rinse well. Much of the tarnish and gunk is gone by the time the inside cleaning os over. That makes the silver polishing easier. I've decided that it's best NOT to spray it directly into the valve casings to clean the mess and stains. (It's OK on the pistons themselves) It cleans the casings very well, but for a couple of days, the metal is "unstable" and the valves don't work quite as well. Now I just brush them out and use a little dishwashing liquid if necessary.

BTW, I found a really great leadpipe brush at a hardware store recently. I forgot what it is made to clean, but it's about 14 inches long, about 3/8 inch thick, has a handle and short stiff bristles. They are synthetic and do not scratch. Makes the leadpipe cleaning a breeze.

I just finished cleaning out or rinsing, depending on the need, several of my horns. A very quick and easy way to rinse them to keep them clean is a vinyl tub/hair shampoo hose (found at many hardware or grocery stiores) and a Warburton backbore. One end of the hose slips over the tub faucet. The shampooer part comes right off and is replaced with the Warburton backbore. Put the hose in the leadpipe and rinse, rinse, rinse. I keep the valves in for the rinse. Horns that are played often and rinsed every once in a while stay clean. But you shouldda seen the stuff that came flyin' out of my picc! Icchh.

David

_PhilPicc · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject:

I can see these methods if you buy an ebay horn that is in rough shape. However I hope no one has to go through this with their own horns that they play all the time. I personally have never seen a horn that would need these methods.

David, I would be interested in the brush you found for the leadpipe. Do you know what section in the store you found it.

Thanks,
Phil

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Philip Satterthwaite

[ This Message was edited by: PhilPicc on 2003-09-13 15:56 ]