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CG Moutpiece


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study888
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005
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Location: Darlington,S.C.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:50 am    Post subject: CG Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Hello. From what I have noted with these Kanstul CG models. In the Trumpet Mouthpieces,the only one that is Claude Gordan's model design is the CGP model in 16.00 MM. The other CG #7 kanstul model,I have not tried. Only the CG3 in Trumpet,which was a big disappointment rim wise compared to the rim on the CG3 Cornet M.P.

From the reading of the notes on the Kanstul site and The Claude Gordan Patty site. The CGP rim in Trumpet/Cornet are Mr. Gordan's mouthpiece design.

The Kanstul CG3 Rim on the Cornet, a (Modified Del Staiger). May be, the other rim design prefered and designed by Mr. CG Gordan. If not, the CG3 rim on the Kanstul Cornet M.P. is entirely a new rim design by Kanstul and sold in the CG M.P. Cornet section.

I hope not, by throwing in the CG3 Trumpet/Cornet M.P's. I have muddied the waters and created some confusion. Got to learn to stay on topic.

I have a very old vintage Bach New York Bach # 7 Cornet mouthpiece. It is simlar in feel as the Kanstul CGP rim. The differance is the older New York Bach 7 rim is a tad flatter, cup not quite as V cup deep, has a inner sharp cookie cutter rim edge.

The CGP rim is rounded like a French horn type rim. The inner rim edge is rounded and V cup deeper. Comparing older Bach 7 rim/CGP rim in rim size feel on lips. The Bach #7/ CGP feels closer to a Bach 5C to Bach 3C in rim size feel. Sort of in between the Two on the CGP,with the Bach New York #7 closer to a Bach 3C rim size.

The closest Bach mouthpiece in V cup and rim size to the CGP is the Bach 8 1/2 Trumpet/Cornet M.P.'s. Rim design will not be the same. But not a bad feeling rim at all, if you like a Bach 7C rim. The Throat size and backbore will be a Bach standard etc. Not same as the CGP.

Would be nice if Kanstul offered the CG3 Del Staiger modified rim on the Trumpet mouthpiece and Cornet in a 16.00MM rim size are 16.25 MM. Rim size.

The CG3 Cornet Del Staiger rim feels even better than the CGP rim to me. Has more bite on the inner rim. Just my thoughts. I like both the CGP/ CG3 in Cornet MP's. The CGP M.P. in Trumpet,but not the CG3 in Trumpet.


Last edited by study888 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: CG Mouthpieces Reply with quote

study888 wrote:
Hello. From what I have noted with these Kanstul CG models. In the Trumpet Mouthpieces,the only one that is Claude Gordan's model design is the CGP model in 16.00 MM...

I have it on good authority that the CGP mouthpiece was developed by CG quite late in his career. It is not what he played or endorsed for most of his career.
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Bach, I played on a 5MV for years. I always thought that Claude designed the Bach 5V, 5MV and 5SV. I remember that the 5MV I have was the piece that came with my friends (Tom Bertetta) CG Selmer and he gave it to me and I played it for many years.

Eb
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Jeff_Purtle
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Joined: 14 Mar 2003
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Location: Greenville, South Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claude didn't like the Bach 5V and it was Selmer's idea to sell it with the CG Selmer as an attempted copy of the CG mouthpiece. On later posters I believe the mentioning of the 5V mouthpiece was removed and I remember Claude crossing it out on posters or using whiteout on it.

I think I remember Claude mentioning that Manny Klein played a Bach 5C and that was a good size. It's been over 25 years since I compared them. But, I think the 5V wasn't as deep as a 5C and had more of a V instead of a bowl cup. I think the Bach 5C was deeper than the 1 1/2C.

Claude definitely didn't like the block style rim as on the Bach mouthpieces and thought the tapered rim was better. The CG Personal and similar rims were taken from Claude copying the Del Staigers cornet mouthpiece rim.

I remember us talking about this in the pedagogy class with Claude, myself, and the 4 other CG students.

However, there are excellent players that use other equipment. For me the CG rim is very comfortable and I have never experienced any discomfort with it in nearly 30 years of using it.

I will buy a Bach 5V if someone has it. I have a collection of the various CG mouthpieces just to keep a record of. Contact me if you have anything to sell. I have a Benge CG1 mouthpiece and a Benge CG10, which seem to be the biggest extremes. I don't know how anyone could play the 10. But, the 10 is actually deeper than the others.

Jeff
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mrwilliams
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff
I have a 5V if you're interested.
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 5V is pretty deep, certainly deeper than a 5C and the 5MV is still deeper than a 5C. I played a 5SV for a couple of years as well and did well on it.
You can still get the Bach V series new.

Eb
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff_Purtle wrote:


I have a collection of the various CG mouthpieces just to keep a record of. Contact me if you have anything to sell. I have a Benge CG1 mouthpiece and a Benge CG10, which seem to be the biggest extremes. I don't know how anyone could play the 10. But, the 10 is actually deeper than the others.

Jeff


Hi Jeff,

Do you have a "Benge Claude Gordon Model" mouthpiece? I believe this was the first of the Benge mouthpieces made for Claude and it is the one that was a direct copy of his own custom mouthpiece he was playing in the late '60's / early '70's. When I started studying with him, he put me on the CG7. At that time I asked him about his own mouthpiece and he told me it had the diameter of a Bach 5C but a more rounded rim. The Benge Claude Gordon Model fits that description, as according to Jim New's scans of it, its diameter and depth lie right between a CG3 and a CG7.

Best wishes,

John
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach 'straight' 7 (no letter, or maybe 7B) seems very similar to the CG Personal, per the Kanstul comparator.

I used an old Bach 7 (stamped VINCENT BACH CORP MT VERNON NY 7)
for many years before the plating wore, and recently (after a long trumpet layoff, playing French horn) bought a new Bach 7 (stamped VINCENT BACH 7), which lip & playing feels identical to my old one.
But with the VB7, the entrance from the bottom of the cup into the throat seems (finger tip test) a little more funnel shaped than on the VBCMV 7. The tip of my finger slides smoothly into the entrance on the new VB7, while on the old VBCMV7 I can feel a definite gentle 'edge' going into the entrance.

On my horn, they both insert the same amount into the receiver -1 inch, and that results in a tiny gap.

edit: and see here for another discussion -
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105895#105895
edit: updated the details on the stamping of the mpcs.

Jay
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