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jimmysmith76
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Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 146
Location: Detroit, MI
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 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I did buy the first Davidson horn.
It plays great! Good price too!
Mine has a Elkhart Martin bell and a blessing valve set. Johns leadpipe, his tuning slides (came with 2, 1 step bore .453-.460, and .468), and his bell tail. The horn is a ML bore, .460.
Mine has a rose brass leadpipe.
Amado water keys.
On my horn he used a copper bell tail.
I had him put on Taylor phat rings and a Martin Handcraft pinky hook.
He used Martin casting braces, it is wrapped tight like a Martin.
It plays slippery like a Committee but the center is easier to find.
It opens up better above the staff more than any M bore Committee that I have owned.
I have used it on all kinds of gigs, commercial, big band, and jazz. It gets the job done. Intonation is solid.
Here are a couple pics
http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h439/jimmysmith76/?action=view¤t=photo-1.jpg
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Last edited by jimmysmith76 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
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billybobb
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| jimmysmith76 wrote: | I did buy the first Davidson horn.
It is plays great! Good price too!
Mine has a Elkhart Martin bell and a blessing valve set. Johns leadpipe, his tuning slides (came with 2, 1 step bore .453-.460, and .468), and his bell tail. The horn is a ML bore, .460.
Mine has a rose brass leadpipe.
Amado water keys.
On my horn he used a copper bell tail.
I had him put on Taylor phat rings and a Martin Handcraft pinky hook.
He used Martin casting braces, it is wrapped tight like a Martin.
It plays slippery like a Committee but the center is easier to find.
It opens up better above the staff than any M bore Committee that I have owned.
I have used it on all kinds of gigs, commercial, big band, and jazz. It gets the job done. Intonation is solid.
Here are a couple pics
[url] [/url]
http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h439/jimmysmith76/?action=view¤t=photo-1.jpg |
Surely you knew we would ask to hear samples of you playing the horn lol. Do you have any and if so, post the links. |
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billybobb
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| EdMann wrote: | I did a play test with a friend who owns a studio with the goal of seeing if my 8310Z could do the dark thing like his old large bore Handcraft Committee (which he doesn't have anymore but has loads of tape and years of playing), his early Elk Bach 37, my med. bore '49 Committee and a reverse pipe 37 he's had since high school. The mpc's were my Bach 3 14 drill and his NY3 with an ELEVEN drill.
On virtually every pass, we couldn't get the Z to sound as smokey as either Committee (the med bore was darker, quite frankly, than the large bore Handcraft), or even as dark as the two Bachs, which he was able to darken like a cloak. The Z was plenty warm sounding, but had a thinner tone, which printed well. We both can see why these new Yamahas end up in the studios, but not late-night, bar's-about-to-close dark venues where the patrons have permanent bar stool butt scars.
In another test of wills, a certain lead player in Chicago area tried the Bach 3 14 drill against the Yamaha Shew Jazz (3Cish) piece on the Z horn and he was getting just as dark on that with the Shew piece as the cavernous Bach 3! All about cup volume and approach. I will try a Lawler one day; I do love that cloak of darkness but the best combo for me was my Bach 3 piece on the medium bore Committee. The Dark Horse!
ed |
Now this is an interesting and informative post! From everything I've read, they make it seem like Chris Botti has the one and only large bore Handcraft Committee out there. Funny cause I was just thinking to myself two days ago how could this be. So it's great to see that's not the case......unless you friends ended up going to Chris lol. Thanks for the info. |
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ChopsGone
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Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 1793
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt.Kirk wrote: |
@ ChopesGone what happened to the leadpipe No1 and No4???? They used to be on the web page not more then 12 months ago. I got a copy of it on my computer. SO what happened to the mention of them. Dominic did not develop the 2 first and he did not skip the number 4 and make the 5 pipe. |
Ah, the wonders of the edit facility. I'd replied earlier, tried to edit to add an URL, and ended up losing the whole thing. Anyway, here goes again.
I've checked my archived 2008 Calicchio catalog, and there's no mention of a #1 or a #4 leadpipe. I'm pretty sure John's made no changes to his site since 2009 other than the ones relating to his move to Oregon.
Perhaps you were thinking of a certain firm in NYC which occasionally lists on eBay what it identifies as NOS Calicchio leadpipes?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320806933189?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Now, there is, and was, a #1 bell, which is the C trumpet bell and which is distinct from the 1s. My Calicchio C trumpet has such a bell. Unfortunately, the leadpipe is not identified, but I'd be willing to bet it's not a #4, whatever that is.
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ronn6611
New Member
Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Spring Hill FL
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| dqjazz wrote: | I played a 1946 Martin Committe for almost 2 years, and while I loved the sound it was a bit of a dog to play for intonation, and the loose slotting thing that they have just made it more difficult than modern horns. I did play lead on it a few times and thought it sounded better than a typical lead horn as there was more sound and less sizzle, but that's what I like in a sound. I did have a 8310Z for about 6 months and felt it was too bright but did play very well.
I recently got Lawler C7 ML with M3R bell as I was more than curious, and I think it is the closest you'll get to a Martin sound. the sound colours available on the C7 are amazing you can sound mellow in all registers and you can push and sound bright in all registers, so I find it very versatile. It slots better and has better intonation than the Martin. I think the fact that it is hand built is also why it's better than a production horn. The bell is a 2 piece bell as is the Martin and the new bell configuration looks exactly the same as my Martin when sitting next to each other.
Overall, I don't think you'll find anything than replicates the vintage Martin's exactly. There will always be a bit of give and take somehwere. Schilke horns don't sound like a Committee and given all the documentation about Renold Schilke's input into the Committee I would of thought Schilke horns would sound more like a Committee but they don't.
Good luck in your search, don't be put off by a dark sounding horn. I found coming from Bach's, Conn 38B, 8310Z to a dark sounding horn took a while to get used to but when you do get used to it there is just more sound options available as all trumpets can sound bright when pushed but not all can sound dark and loud volumes either. |
| Quote: |
I totally agree!! I did have a vintage Martin Committee myself and then a Lawler C7 with the redbrass bell. The Lawler came very close in sound, but was certainly much better with intonation. The Martin had a great sound, but the intonation was not the best. I now have an Eclipse MR which I feel is better than both in sound and intonation qualities.  |
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yourbrass
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Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3635
Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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"Perhaps you were thinking of a certain firm in NYC which occasionally lists on eBay what it identifies as NOS Calicchio leadpipes?"
There is no way I know of to tell whether or not these are Calicchio pipes, but I can vouch for the quality of a lot of parts I've bought from this source. He's had NOS Benge parts that are great, among other things. I'd love to hear the story of the shop that put all these things together, it must be a whopper. |
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pastbrass
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 255
Location: Acton, MA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:27 am Post subject: |
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The S. E. Shires trumpet R&D guys are currently working on a Committee style trumpet and hope to add it to our trumpet line next year. I'll post updates on our progress.
Scott |
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supportlivejazz
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Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 3757
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| pastbrass wrote: | The S. E. Shires trumpet R&D guys are currently working on a Committee style trumpet and hope to add it to our trumpet line next year. I'll post updates on our progress.
Scott |
Out of Hopedale, MA. What a neat little Berg.... 
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1940s Blessing Artist
Olds LA Special Model Cornet
"I'm not apologizing, I am what I am. There'll be no compromising, I don't give a damn." |
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oliver king
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Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Schilke.
There are some interesting conversions done to Olds to copy a Martin.
Last edited by oliver king on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zackh411
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Joined: 17 May 2011
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Location: Saint Louis MO
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Lots of cool info here. I'll just have to find one and try it out sometime. I've been experimenting with trying to get a dark sound out of my current equipment, and have had some success, even on the shoop piece, which is the antithesis of dark/smoky.
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Lead Piece: Custom PickettBrass
Jazz Piece: Custom Curry TC
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shmo_joe
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 215
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:53 am Post subject: |
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it's not the same as Large Bore Martin Committee
it's lighter
brighter (more brighter overtones)
similar blow but more responsive
similar resistance
different mouthpiece gap
it's more like Martin Handracft Committee
but it's a good horn
they also offer various bell materials
| adagiotrumpet wrote: | | Marcinkiewicz makes, or at least made a Coppola Model that was supposedly based on Johny Coppola's old Martin Committee large bore. |
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| oliver king wrote: | Schilke.
There are some interesting conversions done to Olds to copy a Martin. |
Can you be more specific about the Olds conversions... what is done, by whom and where is the info located on-line, if there is any?? thanks.
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Olds LA Special Model Cornet
"I'm not apologizing, I am what I am. There'll be no compromising, I don't give a damn." |
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Brian Moon
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Location: Detroit
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:28 am Post subject: |
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The best way to copy a Martin is to use certain Martin parts.
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ObamaCare, a massive government takeover, a measure destroying jobs and the economy, a law designed to enslave the American people, an instrument of tyranny in the hands of criminal elitists. |
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Pockettrumpet
Regular Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 58
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| onlyson wrote: | I have been down this road. It started with the 8310Z. I got a used C7 from Roy on spec and put it up against the Z. I think this particular C7 was more of a lead configuration, and I ended up sending it back. I then went the Olds Recording route and had one refurbed by Charlie Melk, but it still was missing something.
I then traveled nearly 200 miles to visit various C7 owners. One even lent his C7 Deluxe prototype and a Martin Committee Deluxe. I had them both for nearly 5 months. The C7 was a very good horn, but that Committee was special. Before I learned that the owner was willing to part with the Committee, I had ordered a C7. I thought I wanted a large bore because the blow on the C7 was kinda tight. I was mistaken. The horn I eventually received was a very dark sounding horn. Too dark actually. But if that's what you're looking for, it absolutely nailed the Chris Botti sound.
By this time I had sold the Z because the blow was too tight. I then sold the Recording to purchase a Sima. The Sima was my main horn for the last couple of years. It has a beautiful sound, but still wasn't quite right for me. I sold it to purchase a Yamaha 9335NY and have been very happy since....until two weeks ago when somebody put their Committee Deluxe up for sale in the marketplace here. And when nobody jumped on it after 3 days, I knew it was a sign from the almighty that it should be mine. And it is! I'm now on a safari to find the perfect mouthpiece for it. Oh wait, a package just arrived with one. Gotta go.... |
| Quote: |
I'm just wondering if you are also after the Chris Botti sound and if you have met him.? I met Chris in June this year when he came to Australia and I enjoyed our meeting. He was very helpfull with all the questions I asked him and I learnt a lot form him. He even let me blow his Committe and Mouthpiece and that cleared my mind of a lot of miss information floating around about Trumpets, Players and mouthpieces because I have found a lot of the information on line is incorrect and thus confusing.
The strange thing is that most people believe this information and then often rejects someone like yourself who talks sence. Like finding a mouthpiece to suite the horn. Chris Botti' s equipment contentment is because he knows that his mouthpiece does matches him and also his horn. This is more inportant than most trumpet player understand.
richard.autenzio@bigpond.com
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Robert Rowe
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Chincoteague, Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Some posters here on this THread are astute in mentioning the importance of mouthpiece selection when trying for the elusive Martin Committee sound and feel.
Good call.
BTW -- I own / have owned MANY Committees.
I have earnestly sought to find the closest horn to a Committee. For real. I suspect I have acquired well over 30 different kinds of horns in this quest.
Interestingly, I acquired (from a certain TH'er  ) a 1939 Bach small-bore Mercury ... all brass, and bottom-sprung valves. Different from the Mount Vernon examples. THAT horn really comes pretty close to capturing the elusive Committee sound ... albeit, with a somewhat denser core, and less nimble in the upper-register.
Again -- Mouthpiece selection is paramount. I achieved the Committee sound with an unusual choice of an Al Cass mouthpiece. NOT an Al Cass Trumpet mouthpiece, however.
There is ANOTHER horn ... very obscure ... that actually "out Committees" the Committee. I've only seen three appear on eBay in the last 5 years, and I snagged two. The third looked like a dog, and I passed.
I have promised to reveal this obscure horn, upon acquiring ONE more example. It is NOT made in the U.S.A. I will say that much.
BBFN
~ r2 ~
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Pockettrumpet
Regular Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 58
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Hi Onlyson, I'm just wondering if you are also after the Chris Botti sound and if you have met him.? I met Chris in June this year when he came to Australia and I enjoyed our meeting. He was very helpfull with all the questions I asked him and I learnt a lot form him. He even let me blow his Committe and Mouthpiece and that cleared my mind of a lot of miss information floating around about Trumpets, Players and mouthpieces because I have found a lot of the information on line is incorrect and thus confusing.
The strange thing is that most people believe this information and then often rejects someone like yourself who talks sence. Like finding a mouthpiece to suite the horn. Chris Botti' s equipment contentment is because he knows that his mouthpiece does matches him and also his horn. This is more inportant than most trumpet player understand.
richard.autenzio@bigpond.com |
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oliver king
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| supportlivejazz wrote: | | oliver king wrote: | Schilke.
There are some interesting conversions done to Olds to copy a Martin. |
Can you be more specific about the Olds conversions... what is done, by whom and where is the info located on-line, if there is any?? thanks. |
I've a 1958 Olds Super that Dick Akright replaced the leadpipe, tuning slide and bell ... all to emulate a Committee. He used his copy of the leadpipe. Some friend of his made a few, 3 copies of a 40's Committee bell - he used the last one he had on my horn. It's slippery like a Martin but not quite as dark. I am playing a Kanstul copy of a Bach 1C on a Warburton 8*. It's got a dense, compact, lively tone. It's been my daily player for the last 3 months or so.
I've heard about another frankenhorn using a Olds Opera as the donor horn that has (I believe) a Martin bell and a copy of a Committee leadpipe. I'll tell you all about that one after I buy it. I've seen a bell show up on ebay that may be from that set Dick's friend made.
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stephan
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 254
Location: France
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ronn 6611 wrote
I | Quote: | | totally agree!! I did have a vintage Martin Committee myself and then a Lawler C7 with the redbrass bell. The Lawler came very close in sound, but was certainly much better with intonation. The Martin had a great sound, but the intonation was not the best. I now have an Eclipse MR which I feel is better than both in sound and intonation qualities.
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According you, the sound of the Eclipse MR is better than the C7 and the Committee but is it close to the Committe too like the C7?
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Last edited by stephan on Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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trmptz
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Location: St. Louis "Blues"!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt.Kirk wrote: | My point was that no one has really gone all out no one has done for instance what Zig does and make a darn good copy of it they way he has coppied some famous models. You see a leadpipe here and a bell their that might sound similar but no real well thought out clone or total package.
My Holton Collegiate which is a clone of that years Al Hirt Special has a bell much like the Martin in it's profile yet it does not sound anything like a Martin Com not at all. So it takes more then just a similar bell profile.
Some horns have bell profiles more like a Bach 72 or 37 and yet they are dark and lack brilliance but they do not play anything at all like a Martin. It is not enough to have one piece of the puzzel I truly think it is an all or none situation. My pre-Selmer Super Aristocrat is a nice dark sounding horn and some people before me have called them a poor mans Martin but I would never call them that. They sound fantastic and I like them all the way around but it is not even close to being a Martin.
It is not a matter of Mr. Schilke having a magical touch it is a matter of the market not making it clear to OEM's that their are people that might like something other then hords of 180/37 Bach Strad Clones. Kanstul,Getzen,Schilke,Conn,Selmer,Bach,Bundy,King,Holton none of them build a clone of the MArtin Com. horn.
I am sure any of the above OEM if they wanted to make one and where willing to do it right could. No one seems to want to though. Kanstul by far has the most non-Bach sounding horns in his inventory no one else has the diverse sound concepts and horn as Kanstul. Some people will tell you it is just another Besson style horn but I do not agree with that idea at all!!!
@ ChopesGone what happened to the leadpipe No1 and No4???? They used to be on the web page not more then 12 months ago. I got a copy of it on my computer. SO what happened to the mention of them. Dominic did not develop the 2 first and he did not skip the number 4 and make the 5 pipe. Just like Bach had more bell profiles then what Selmer took with them. So what happened to the ones Getzen bought that Selmer left behind when they moved?
I am pretty sure it is not going to happen unless the entire American grade school Band Directors as a unit decided they liked the sound of the Martin Committee better and wanted their trumpet players to have some. Then everyone that makes a Bach Clone with seems to be everyone that sells a trumpet would immediately start snatching up good used models to use as a basis to reverse engineer from. Short of that I would not hold my breath on it. Maybe someone nut will come along and have Zig build him such a horn to sell under his own label but again I would not hold my breath!
In spite of not liking Kanstul valve assembly I do think we are lucky to have Kanstul because they have done more to keep more now considered obsolete sound concepts alive by cloning them and selling them. We are fantastically lucky to have them other wise the Benge sound concept and the Conn Constellation would both be relegated to the few good used horns that are floating around. We would not have a source for Olds Parts either. I have tremendous respect for that portion of the companies mission statement or marketing idea etc... Their are other's too like the Besson Meha large bore and other's! No one else does models like those!
I wanted to add that it is not enough to have say just a bell or just a leadpipe. I have an Olds Opera bell but I already know that just having the bell does not an Olds Opera make. If I am lucky I will get maybe 50%-65% of the sound of the Olds Opera. Really to do it right I would like to have have had the bell, leadpipe and the main tuning slide at the very least. The more you want to sound like the real deal the more you have to get close to the original. FOr instance I have been told by more then one hard core Martin collector that the valves where fitted fairly lose as in over lapped by Mr. Schilkes standards and that a Martin with a nice tight refit be it by Anderson or Dr. Valve does not play or sound right. Then you have the difference in the various mass of the valve and piston assembly from brand to brand. It makes a huge difference in how they play and respond. If you do not get the mass right in that area you might get close but never really get their! This is why some people have had good luck putting a Martin bell, leadpipe and tuning slide on a different brand of valve assembly and some have had not so good results doing it. The more parts you have though that are identical the closer you get. That is why I said no one has really gone all out with an attempt to seriously do a money be darned clone.
Also I do not think any or your modern large mass production OEM of brass instrument have a bell remotely close to the Martin in their Bb line up. Some have cornet or bugle bells that come very close but have a larger diameter bell and obviously shorter bell stem. I have already eye balled some bells from Cornets and Bugles that would make for interesting Bb trumpet bells. |
Are you serious? Damn my brain hurts everytime you post. After your totally boring rant did you ever answer the OP's question? And yes you are wrong AGAIN!! about the Lawler leadpipe.  |
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KingSilverSonic
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
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Location: Dubuque, Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| onlyson wrote: | | ... I then traveled nearly 200 miles to visit various C7 owners. One even lent his C7 Deluxe prototype and a Martin Committee Deluxe. I had them both for nearly 5 months. The C7 was a very good horn, but that Committee was special. Before I learned that the owner was willing to part with the Committee, I had ordered a C7... |
I first purchased a C7 with yellow brass bell about 6 years ago and when I was warming up before a rehearsal another trumpet player from across the room asked if I was playing a Martin Committee. So, something in the sound made him think I was playing a Committee. And, for what it's worth, I purchased the C7 Deluxe prototype mentioned above.
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