Best way to unstick a tuning slide?

Christophomicus

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, folks; I couldn't find any that were more suitable for such a question, and hey, maybe this will lead to some interesting discussion.

A friend of mine has given me his trumpet with a stuck tuning slide, and for the life of me I cannot get it unstuck. I work at a music shop, and I've taken it into work, and even my boss can't get it unstuck either! We've tried the following methods:

Tie cloth around, tug on cloth
We've got a small piece of wood that fits in the indent and has felt on the end so as not to dent it; put that in and gave it a few solid hits with the hammer. No dents, but no movement either.
WD-40 on the outside, left for 1 hour.
Valve oil on the outside, left for 1 hour.
WD-40 and valve oil down the leadpipe, trumpet positioned so that the liquid is over the trouble spot, left for 4 hours.
Heating the problem area with an open flame for a few seconds (boss' idea, not mine!)

And none of these have made any difference. I'm at my wit's end, TH, and any advice you can give me would be most appreciated. @_@
_________________
-Bach 180-37LR, B&S Challenger 3137/2, Getzen Eterna, Conn Constellation
-Bach Stradivarius 184ML, CarolBrass 3880 GSS-BB-SLB
-ACB Doubler's Flugel

FrankM · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:01 am Post subject:

This has happened to me twice with newly bought 2nd hand instruments. Sounds like you've exhausted the DIY possibilities. My tech had to dissmantle the leadpipe & solder a plug into the sleeve so he had something to work against. Not a DIY job for the average player. Good luck.

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6177

You could give it an ultrasonic bath if such equipment is available. This might loosen the dirt and corroded material that hold the slide in place. It should not make things worse.

Christophomicus · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:35 am Post subject:

While I would love to have access to an ultrasonic cleaner, no such luck! Out of curiosity, how much do they cost ballpark? I've been toying with the idea of getting one for a while now, and I should even be able to get work to front the cost.

Looks like I'm going to have to resort to fairly hardcore methods to get this beastie unstuck - at this rate I'd sooner recommend him a new trumpet than the effort it's going to take to fix this! Thanks for your suggestions thus far folks.
_________________
-Bach 180-37LR, B&S Challenger 3137/2, Getzen Eterna, Conn Constellation
-Bach Stradivarius 184ML, CarolBrass 3880 GSS-BB-SLB
-ACB Doubler's Flugel

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6177

Here you go:
www.mcmaster.com/#ultrasonic-cleaners/=gq7gml

FrankM · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:04 am Post subject:

My latest one was a Yamaha 6335H & the invoice lists unsoldering 4 joints at a total cost of £42 ($66). So well worth doing on a decent instrument, perhaps not if it's a cheapo student horn. You're talking serious money for an ultrasonic cleaner big enough to take a whole trumpet.

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6177

A shop might even buy a cleaner big enough to accommodate disassembled trombones and lower brass.

shofarguy · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:44 am Post subject:

WD-40 is not really a solvent, which may be what's needed to dissolve the corrosion that is causing the problem. You might try Liquid Wrench. Is it available in AUS? A few well placed drops around the outside and down the leader pipe, then left to soak a few hours, might do the trick.

Brian
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper

There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

oldblow · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:04 am Post subject:

A while back, I bought a new-looking Bach 310, just to try a shepherd's crook cornet. It looked brand new, except for a couple of minor dings. The tuning slide was extended about 1/8th inch. When I tried to move it, it was stuck. Considering the overall condition of the horn, I thought that a tug or a tap would get me in business. (At this point, I'll cut to the end of the story.)

End of Story: Some kid had put super glue on the slide to hold it in place. Obviously, he had not lubricated the slide either, so the glue worked wonderfully. My tech had to unsolder ever thing etc, in order to get the thing off and operable.

The effort was worth it. With a Boston Musical Instrument mouthpiece in it, I have a cheap flugel sound.
_________________
Felton (Butch) Bohannon

yourbrass · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:16 am Post subject:

I would strongly advise against ultrasonic or any other cleaning agent until you get the thing apart. Being able to scrub out all the loose stuff and then putting separated parts in the tank is the right way to start.

The posters talking about disassembly and individual pulling of slides are on the right track - that's often how it's done.

Another way is Ferree's E90 tuning slide pliers. They work if the slide is pulled out a bit and you can get a grip in front of the ferrule connected to the top or bottom of the crook.

If you soak in penetrating oil, it might be weeks before you get results. Depends on how old it is, how long it's been stuck, etc.

Christophomicus · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:23 am Post subject:

dershem · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject:

A couple of kilos of C4 should do it.

VetPsychWars · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject:

There was a thread on Trumpet Master the other day about that horn; basically the recommended procedure is to cut the slide in half and pull it, replacing the slide with a new one. It's a one-piece slide with some ferrules on it.

You might want to go over there and take a look.

Tom
_________________
1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1

jocar37 · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject:

Have you tried cold? Heat makes things expand, cold makes them ,contract. I don't know if your horn has a reverse tuning slide, but I'd try applying cold to smaller pipes. If that doesn't work, maybe try cold to the smaller pipes and a bit of heat to the larger ones.
_________________
1945 Martin Committee
1939 Martin Handcraft Committee
1963 Olds Recording
1906 F. Besson flugel

ADziuk · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject:

jocar37 is on the right track, and if anyone has ever done any serious plumbing you will understand why this works.

If you have ever tried to break the solder on old copper pipe, you will know that you can NOT heat it up enough to reflow the solder if there is moisture or water in the pipe. The water is very efficient at dissipating heat.

What you need to do is pour ice cold water into the leadpipe, enough to fill much of the tuning slide with the horn vertical(standing on the bell), but not enough water to fill up into the leadpipe(this is important).

Then with the horn still standing up and the water inside the tuning slide, swab out the lead-pipe to get any moisture left over from pouring in the water. Take your shop torch on low setting and start heating up the leadpipe bit by bit. The tuning slide with water in it will dissipate the heat and stay cool, while the leadpipe will heat and expand and let go.

I've used this technique on a horn that had been sitting for 60+ years and it freed up. If you can't get it this way then it's time to start disassembly.
_________________
"Everyone should carefully observe which way his heart draws him, and then choose that way with all his strength."

davidkoch · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject:

Roberts-K · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject:

ytou can also use penetrating oil and draw it down the slide with heat. hen it bubbles out and foams you can usually break it loose. Helps to have special slide removal pliers from Ferree's too!
_________________
2010 Lawler 25th C7 XL
Lalwer LF-1 Flugel

DavesTrumpet · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:18 am Post subject:

Re: The special slide removing pliers used on Yamaha student horns. Yamaha doesn't use a typically fashioned slide (two inner slide tubes, crook, two ferrules) on their student model instruments. On these horns the crook and inner slide tubes are all one piece. The ferrules ARE NOT SOLDERED and the slide pliers WILL NOT WORK. You'll just end up pushing the ferrules further up and along the tuning slide bend and the slide won't budge. Just saving you the time and expense. Been there/done that so many times on these horns it's not funny.
_________________
Dave M

www.electrotheremin.com/bach.html
www.soundcloud.com/davestrumpet
www.facebook.com/DavesTrumpet
www.youtube.com/DavesTrumpet

Wild Vine · New Member Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 9

yourbrass · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject:

"Yamaha doesn't use a typically fashioned slide (two inner slide tubes, crook, two ferrules) on their student model instruments. On these horns the crook and inner slide tubes are all one piece. The ferrules ARE NOT SOLDERED and the slide pliers WILL NOT WORK."

Dave's referring (I think) to the YTR2335. The OP wrote YTR235. That may be a model that was imported to Oz, but not the USA. Look down the inside of the tubing to determine if it is a one-piece crook. It's a most unfortunate idea, but I'm sure it saved money. (for them!)