Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 34 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: "Da Carbo" Carbon Fiber Bell
My boss came back from an overseas trip to Scotland and brought back with him a fascinating little horn. What's so strange about it, you ask? Well, the bell is made entirely of carbon fiber. The body of the trumpet is a Spiri Vario, and the carbon fiber bell can be detached and replaced with a regular brass bell designed for a Spiri Vario.
Very nice to hold, and quiet passages are a breeze. Sounds a little muddy, but it really sings in the upper register. Intonation is great. I'd never play it full time, but it was fun to muck around with. Thought it would interest you folks, at least. Anyone else had experience with carbon fiber bells?
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 380 Location: Pennsylvania
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:34 am Post subject:
Cool looking horn. Do you have any pix of the whole horn you could post?
Never even heard of this brand before, and never heard of a carbon fiber bell before. But I would think that someone going to the trouble of trying to fabricate a horn with carbon fiber would want to make it well built horn to justify the time and expense.
As far as the muddiness goes, have you tried to see how responsive it is to different mouthpieces? _________________ 1945 Martin Committee
1939 Martin Handcraft Committee
1963 Olds Recording
1906 F. Besson flugel
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 34 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:09 am Post subject:
Sure thing, I'll take some more photos tomorrow when I'm in. I only tried it with the included mouthpiece (a Spiri 3C-4), but I might take in my usual Jet Tone tomorrow and give it a workout. _________________ -Bach 180-37LR, B&S Challenger 3137/2, Getzen Eterna, Conn Constellation
-Bach Stradivarius 184ML, CarolBrass 3880 GSS-BB-SLB
-ACB Doubler's Flugel
Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 385 Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:17 am Post subject:
It's definitely a cool looking horn. There have been a few here on TH that have had the opportunity to try a carbon fiber bell horn. I'm not sure if this company is the only one making them or if there are others. I believe the general consensus was that they are a neat idea, but that the sound just isn't happening....yet.
But then again, I'm not one to wax nostalgic over a traditional trumpet sound. Perhaps it will become recognized for it's own unique sound qualities, much like when people got over that synthesizers didn't really sound like brass, string, and woodwind instruments, but started using them for their own unique qualities. I'll be curious to see what the future brings for ideas like this. Thanks for sharing. _________________ Adams A4 Shepherds Crook Bb
1970's Bach 37 Bb
1970's Getzen Flugel
I think it is a cool idea. I would love to see them in more common circulation. B&H made composite bells for testing useing trombone. According to them pro musicians could not tell a plastic bell from a copper bell from a brass bell when blindfolded. They used chanageable weights to maintain balance of the trombone so that weight did not give the bell material away.
B&H determined that bore irregularities are what determine how the bell sounds. They went to great lengths to make sure all the bells had the same bore irregularities as much as humanly possible. It is a great paper. _________________ The only easy day was yesterday!
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 410 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject:
Capt.Kirk wrote:
I think it is a cool idea. I would love to see them in more common circulation. B&H made composite bells for testing useing trombone. According to them pro musicians could not tell a plastic bell from a copper bell from a brass bell when blindfolded. They used chanageable weights to maintain balance of the trombone so that weight did not give the bell material away.
B&H determined that bore irregularities are what determine how the bell sounds. They went to great lengths to make sure all the bells had the same bore irregularities as much as humanly possible. It is a great paper.
Do you know where I could read this paper on bore irregularity research, thanks? _________________ Michael R. Drapp,
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Joined: 29 Apr 2010 Posts: 20 Location: St. Helens, OR
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject:
Several years ago I attended a Canadian Brass clinic. Charles Daellenbach was using a prototype carbon fiber tuba. Can't recall if the entire horn was carbon fiber or just the bell section. Anyway, it sounded OK and he didn't take time to critique the horn. Didn't hear any more about it after that. Failed experiment no doubt.
Their research is why I tend to poo-poo material choices outside best material for long term rot prevention. I find that material makes the most difference at extremely low volume levels and at extremely loud levels but almost no difference in the middle where most people play. Like wise it makes the most difference if the bell is extremely light or extremely heavy not much difference in the standard weight.
If I was going to have Kanstul or Huxxon Gakii build me horns I would go almost entirely with gold brass for all the tubing and bells and nickel silver for inside slide tubes. I would not play around with yellow brass, copper or bronze because I do not think it is worth the added cost to make models in all those materials when you get 85% copper content in gold brass, it works like yellow brass and give the best compromise of color to the sound and corrosion resistance. Keep in mind I would not make any compromises that I thought would bring down anything I was going to put my name on. I think yellow brass is about "how cheap can I make a trumpet" " copper is mostly marketing for most people" "Gold Brass or Bronze" are in my opinion the best all around compromise for any brass instrument. Some places use the term interchangeably like some places use "red brass and bronze" interchangeably as well. So things get a bit murky when tossing around Yellow,Gold,Red Brass and Bronze.....Copper is usually very clear though and not murky at all.
Also read the paper about bell thickness or lack their of......as far as I am aware no one makes a light weight bell as light as what B&S claims is ideal for generating more resonance and harmonics. I think Kanstul used too then stopped because it was too hard to turn out a consistent product with low waste and able to survive the rigors of use. Have to ask Charles the exact reason because I can not remember the exact reason........Have fun reading all their research it is really good stuff. _________________ The only easy day was yesterday!
Several years ago I attended a Canadian Brass clinic. Charles Daellenbach was using a prototype carbon fiber tuba. Can't recall if the entire horn was carbon fiber or just the bell section. Anyway, it sounded OK and he didn't take time to critique the horn. Didn't hear any more about it after that. Failed experiment no doubt.
If I understand that chart correctly, a brass bell costs you about $800. So the carbon fiber only adds about $1000 on top of base cost. (I think). I still like good ol' lacquered brass (or copper... better still!). _________________ "Stomvi" PhrankenPhlugel w/ Blessing copper bell
1958 Conn 18A cornet
1962 Conn 9A cornet (yes, the Unicorn )
Reynolds Onyx cornet
c. 1955? Besson 10-10 trumpet
1939 Martin Imperial Handcraft “Model 37”
1986 Bach Strad 37 ML
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:09 am Post subject:
i particularly like the carbon fiber for the hollow container shapes, the light weight and nice resonance. mezzo forte violins/violas/cellos in germany is a fine example.
it's something you absolutely have to try on a trumpet bell. this is a start and not the be all and end all. it has some promise. i would like to see further development, perhaps ceramic. ?
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 79 Location: los angeles
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:25 am Post subject:
We have been selling the Da Carbo for a couple of years now. It is an outstanding player and very striking! We have found that players looking for a unique looking and sounding instrument gravitate towards this horn. The valves are very smooth and quiet. It barks when you want it to but will simmer down and get smokey when needed. It is built like a fine Swiss watch.
I tried one of these at ITG 2012. To say it is different is an understatement. It is definitely cool, but not my cup of tea. The feel with the carbon fiber bell is totally different from a traditional material. If you have money to burn, this would be a fun horn to own.
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