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Thinking down for up & up for down....please explain



 
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leadlad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:03 pm    Post subject: Thinking down for up & up for down....please explain Reply with quote

So Stamp is famous for saying think down when playing up and think up when playing down. Can you please explain this concept and how to practically incorporate it into ones playing.

Thanks.
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tptplayer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think of it as a way to keep intervals closer together. Half steps are free, he also said, and as we think up for down, down for up we tend to get the notes closer together. experiment with lower arpeggios ( c e g e c) trying to mentally shorten the distance by staying down on the ascending notes and staying up on the descending ones. Takes some practice and mental imagery. Hope this helps
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AverageJoe
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a concept/visualization/mental trick that it keeps you from over-tensing/pressing, etc while ascending and maintain support/firmness while descending.

And as tptplayer pointed out, the result is that everything feels closer together. Didn't know Stamp used this saying...I heard it a long time ago from one of my teachers and it stuck with me. It's one of my favorite teaching tools!

Paul
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2005vladimir
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've studied with a couple of Stamp 'descendants" and one thing they also said was that the air stays down when going up and up when going down. I found that when I tried to stay down to go up, my air naturally blew more downward when I was ascending.

I suppose it's kind of a vague explanation, but it helped me.

Jared Nicholson
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8vatrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My students and some band directors look at me like I'm crazy when I mention this concept!!
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mbassett1451
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

Generally, I just thought that if you "envision" yourself going to a lower note instead of a higher note, the higher note will pop out easier and more consistently. In other words, the preparation that most people use to get ready to play a lower note is actually very useful when going to the higher register...and vice versa. Also, thinking "up" on lower notes avoids the tendency for them to sag in pitch and tone quality.

However, I just had an interesting idea about this concept this evening while practicing.

Think of it like a seesaw. if you push one side down, the other goes up. when you release the side that's down, the other goes down again.
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timcates
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it's about not letting your pitch center drift - important both ways but especially ascending.....

if you play an ascending line such as a scale or arpeggio and you allow your pitch center to go sharper and sharper, there will come a point where there simply isn't a slot for the next note and you get an "airball" even if you aren't at the limit of your range

think of it as cumulative margin of error that eventually adds up to a point where the physics of the horn stop cooperating and things just shut down - FWIW from me....
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irith
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me it's the same thing as playing "centered" or "even" - all about keeping everything feeling close together on the horn and staying in pitch center. It takes a little bit to get the knack of the concept IMO. Develop it on the Stamp studies or similar before really trying to incorporate it. Up when going down was also more intuitive to me than vice versa. Thinking down as I went up made me back off on support at first and was counterproductive. I now think of it more as staying level while ascending, just playing more "out".

Fast technical passages tend to clear up for me a lot when I remind myself of this adage though. The distance isn't the hard part of fast intervals, it's hitting the pitch dead center.
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: even Reply with quote

Even though I tend to be upper stream in the extreme register, I still think down, from the top lip as I ascend. This produces the compression necessary to play and work all day and night, and keep resonate and never loose range. Also helps control pitch, blend, overtones and really aides attacks. And in the lower register, I do find thinking up relaxes the approach, and aides in flexibility, as well as easing the ascent.
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case some of you don't know what kind of player mcgovnor is, we are really fortunate that he gives is insight. That is some really golden information he's laying out.

Thanks, Mike.
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: well Reply with quote

Thank you CN:) Not bad yerself:)
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