• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Switching between trumpet and baritone



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ncc149311
Regular Member


Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Switching between trumpet and baritone Reply with quote

I am a senior in high school. I have band twice a day. I play the trumpet as my primary instrument in Wind Ensemble. I also am in the freshman band learning to play baritone. I play baritone in the morning, go to my second period (Spanish) for an hour and a half, then go to Wind Ensemble. I have found that I am having difficulty getting readjusted to the trumpet in 3rd period. I don't think I will be able to stay 1st chair if I can't learn to be able to adjust quickly. Can you give me any advice?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trumpaholic
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1500
Location: Lindsay Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dump the baritone. You can do both, of course, but you will never get really good on either unless your very gifted.
_________________
Have horn, will travel!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
trumpetDS
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 563
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the misfortune of playing both over an 8 year stretch. The only way to have success on both, is to practice them side by side at home. 10 minutes of trumpet, 10 minutes of baritone- repeat. That all being said, I would pick one and stick with it. The problem as a trumpet player with playing both, is that you lose your finesse, especially you ability to execute soft attacks or high attacks in tune. You aperture becomes too open.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JonathanM
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played trombone and trumpet for a few years. At first, it can be tough going back to trumpet after the larger mouthpiece; you probably will get used to it.

The following is general advice - there may be exceptions depending on your personal setup; embouchure, lips, etc. PM me if you'd like. Doubling does have benefits - some awesome pros have done it. Maynard Ferguson, for example; there's a YouTube vid of him playing a great baritone solo when he was younger. Older; he played a SuperBone - or trombone with both valves and a slide.

One contributor on here gave great advice; don't let switching make you a 'presser'; just relax and keep your aperture similar size on both instruments and remember that it's just a different size rim you're dealing with.

I think you'll get a lot more info as the day goes on... And keep up with whichever horn will get you the best scholarship - if you're thinking that far ahead; touch base with your band director for additional input but it's YOUR lips and your decision (just be sure the input is good from folks you ask). If you do keep up with both you'll be fine in time and a better musician for it as well, I'd think.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpet: CarolBrass 5000L-YLS, 7770L-YST, Conn 12B ('39)
Cornet: Olds Special ('59), Conn 38A Victor Special ('39)
Mouthpieces: ACB and Reeves
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator


Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6211
Location: AVL|NC|USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpaholic wrote:
dump the baritone. You can do both, of course, but you will never get really good on either unless your very gifted.


I don't think that is good advice.

Here's a suggestion (from someone who doubles on trumpet and bass trumpet): after playing your baritone, when you come into band to play trumpet, play a high note first. A G on top of the staff or the A (one leger line) right above it. Just play one or two high notes, wait 30 seconds, and warm up normally.

That will "reset" your aperture and get it smaller and ready for the small mouthpiece quickly.

I play gigs where I play both instruments, and that's a trick I figured out probably 15 or more years ago. Give it a try if you can.

Doubling for me has been the key to endurance, range and facility on trumpet, and I think if more trumpet players tried it (intelligently) they might experience the same result.
_________________
Rich Willey’s SoundCloud Page
==============
Visit my website
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ncc149311
Regular Member


Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have mentioned, I have an extreme upstream embouchure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator


Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6211
Location: AVL|NC|USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncc149311 wrote:
I should have mentioned, I have an extreme upstream embouchure.


That won't be an issue if you maintain the same basic set-up on both instruments.

The only thing that ruins upstream players EVERY time is when they listen to people who tell them to place higher on their faces . . . that doesn't work for upstream players. A low placement is part of the deal if you truly are an upstream player.

You might want to spend some time in the Reinhardt forum for more info of this nature.
_________________
Rich Willey’s SoundCloud Page
==============
Visit my website
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
oxleyk
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 3997

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncc149311 wrote:
I should have mentioned, I have an extreme upstream embouchure.


Have you been typed as such, or just speculating? Either way you should talk to someone in the Reinhardt forum, like Rich Willey.

Kent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crzytptman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BeboppinFool wrote:
trumpaholic wrote:
dump the baritone. You can do both, of course, but you will never get really good on either unless your very gifted.


I don't think that is good advice.

Here's a suggestion (from someone who doubles on trumpet and bass trumpet): after playing your baritone, when you come into band to play trumpet, play a high note first. A G on top of the staff or the A (one leger line) right above it. Just play one or two high notes, wait 30 seconds, and warm up normally.

That will "reset" your aperture and get it smaller and ready for the small mouthpiece quickly.

I play gigs where I play both instruments, and that's a trick I figured out probably 15 or more years ago. Give it a try if you can.

Doubling for me has been the key to endurance, range and facility on trumpet, and I think if more trumpet players tried it (intelligently) they might experience the same result.

I have to agree with Mr. Fool here. I've performed on trumpet and trombone for many years. I've been 1st chair on each in HS at different times. I get calls to play either, and frequently both. In addition to what Willey says, I say you have to get a groove in your chops for each instrument - actually as well as figuratively. Coming from either instrument and learning the other, it will be upsetting to the primary embouchure for awhile. If you seriously want to play baritone (euphonium?), you have to practice. As the larger embouchure gets more secure, switching between the two will be easier. But for me the key is to establish each embouchure separately. There are aspects of playing each instrument that will benefit the other, so it's all good. In the beginning it's rough, so hang in there. I like the setting up suggestion from Mr. Fool.

I'm gonna go shoot myself now . . . .

All the best
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
EdMann
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 2407
Location: The Big Valley

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a closet trombonist, and when a trpt player friend calls while I'm practicing bone, I hide the horn under a bed and speak normally.

Oh, there's no cameraphone...

Anyway, love playing both and I don't see that one detrimentally affects the other. I have the luxury of not performing on bone, so I don't switch quickly very often, but yes, the idea of playing a G or A on top of the staff on trpt to get you reset is a very good, imo.

I also find that my tongue position is not the same in the bone as for trpt, just a bit further back from the front teeth for a larger cavity, although the mpc position and aperture are quite similar. Any of you doublers notice differences in tongue position?

ed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Brad361
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 5945
Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I don't think playing lower brass is necessarily detrimental to trumpet playing, I think a lot of things depend on.....a lot of things, for example, practice time. If you are able to (and be honest with yourself) spend as much time practicing trumpet as you believe you should, and are willing to make more time for baritone practice, fine. (Notice I said ".....willing to make more time..... ." Many of us say "I don't have time" when the truth is more like "I'm unwilling to make time."). I would be hesitant about sacrificing trumpet practice time and replacing it with baritone at your age. I have a student who is a woodwind player, who decided to take up first trumpet, and now trombone. While that can make for a well-rounded musician, it can also make for a musician who really does not play anything especially well. "Jack of all trades, master of none" can be the result.

Brad361
_________________
"I always try but, not always, because the horn is mercy-less, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7546
Location: Des Moines, IA area

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem playing both. As a suggestion, learn the bass clef fingerings, then you'll also be able to do a raft of at-sight transpositions once you figure them out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
crzytptman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EdMann wrote:
I'm a closet trombonist, and when a trpt player friend calls while I'm practicing bone, I hide the horn under a bed and speak normally.

Oh, there's no cameraphone...
ed

I hope you're not in there with Neal and Bob . . .
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
spitvalve
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 1629
Location: Little Elm, TX

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubled for a few years when I was younger. I second the advice to practice them side by side. I generally limited my bone playing to 30 minutes a day versus 90+ for the trumpet, but I made sure that I played both in every session. It took a couple of months but I got to where I could take them both to a gig and switch at will, even on the same tune.

I don't double now because I barely have time to keep up on one instrument. If I ever pick up the trombone again I will go through the same process I did before--a few minutes in each practice session sandwiched between trumpet exercises--and I will take my time and not overdo it.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37
1979 Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn
1964 Olds Ambassador cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group