• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

BE and mpc pressure?



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jarrelainen
Veteran Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 264

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first started playing the trumpet I used excessive, massive leftarm as octave key, and an open embouchure which led to endurance ending fast and range too.

The last years I've been through lots of stuff concerning removing the bad habit of left arm pressure usage and closing the embouchure more together.

So now I instead suffer fom being too afraid of using any pressure at all, which today I realised when I at last listened to my teacher and tried using some pressure.

it seems to me that it is necessary to seal the embouchure, and a must to maintain good sound and relaxed center...
and the pressure used to seal the embouchure doesn't hurt because of a more closed setting the red of the lips won't get smashed.

So my question is, is this a right conclusion, and what are your thoughts about that??

any ideas when and how to know when using just the right amount?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3398
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, you have been brought up by learning to focus on an effect (mouthpiece pressure) rather than a cause.

I almost never discuss mouthpiece pressure in a lesson. There is rarely a need, except sometimes when inducing a vibration in the early stages of learning the rolled-in lip position.

When proper attention is given to lip position, mouthpiece pressure becomes a self-regulating process. You don't need to think about "how much" or "when to use the right amount." That kind of thinking is what results from manipulating mouthpiece pressure (as a development "technique") in the first place. In my experience, no-pressure techniques lead to even bigger problems about 90% of the time.

You also mentioned that it is a "must to maintain good sound and relaxed center." Thinking about a "soft center" is another great way to screw yourself up.

The BE approach is significantly different than what you have evidently done in the past. It will force you to change the way that you think about the instrument.

I hope that you will consider it!

Jeff Smiley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mcamilleri
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2076
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll admit to being another person that had a well developed left-arm/right pinky technique, combined with sliding the mouthpiece down to get high notes (Yuk!). I still remember the day the nerves in my front teeth hurt so much I had to stop playing for 2 weeks to let them recover.

I use far less mouthpiece pressure now in BE than I used to, and for me in the low to mid register (up to G on top of the staff) it actually feels more like lip pressure, i.e. the lips are trying to push the mouthpiece away with air pockets. Provided this feeling is maintained, I don't apply excess pressure, and my lips are free to move. That is my criteria for an appropriate amount of pressure - that I am free to roll-in my lips, especially the top lip.

I still struggle with excess pressure at times, and I know that when it happens it is because my lips are not rolled-in and focused properly, and so are not resisting or controlling the air pressure as they should. As soon as too much mouthpiece pressure goes on, my lips are locked, and I can't roll-in to ascend anymore, which means the only way I can ascend is to use more pressure, and a tongue arch to reduce the air pressure at the lips so they are not blown apart. If I stop and do the lip clamp and a quick roll-in exercise I usually get the proper feeling back.

For me there is a definite breakpoint around G on the staff, where I MUST use more roll-in to ascend, because if I don't the mouthpiece pressure comes on by reflex. At the moment, I must VERY deliberately start to roll-in around middle C, so that by the time the G comes around I don't need the pressure. If I do this, I can sail up to F or G above high C, and higher, easily. If I don't, my lips are already locked by the pressure. In time I expect that my roll-in and roll-out will become more smoothly integrated, and my tone and volume fill out in the upper register.

Michael Camilleri
_________________
Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jarrelainen
Veteran Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 264

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for Your comments!

I agree with what You told, I had a band practice in a local church here and my playing didn't go as well as usually, it felt horribly tough and hard to play above the staff, until I realised that my lips where no more together and rolled-in so I just reached for the octave-key all too often and things went bad.
But when I realised what was happening I rolled in after the practice time was over and realised how easy, "that" easy it should feel to play, and NOT like blowing the head off to play up to high C...

I'm thinking of ordering the BE book, but need some more convincing!

If I'm looking for a method to let my body/face find the "ultimate" embouchure for me, is BE what I'm looking for?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
oj
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1699
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello there, "jarrelainen", over in Sweden! Ole from Norway calling:

Get B.E. - ASAP, run don't walk!

I have huge stacks of trumpet books, I'm a "bookaholic" you see

In my sincere opinion B.E. is one of the best trumpet books ever written. As I've stated another place in this forum, other books makes great promises like: "Double High C in 37 weeks", etc. - but they don't deliver. B.E. does, if you work dilligently on it. It is not a "free lunch", you must practice by following the exercise plan. Results will come in due time.

The basic principles in B.E. are easy to grasp or understand. Exercises look very simple, but when done as described (and listen to the CD) - they are very powerfull. The method are indirect - meaning you can play gigs while working out of B.E. - over time, your embouchure will develop and playing will be so much more fun.

Did you read my interview with Jeff?

When he first "discovered" the balance he though like this:

Anyway, my first reaction was, can it really be this simple? Since I was already teaching the bulk of the method, I added the newer ideas to my student's lessons and watched what happened. The results were truly unbelievable. Over a period of several months, all of my "problem students" - the one's whose complex embouchures used to be a major challenge to deal with - resolved their basic lip position issues. Again, I don't mean "most" of them, or "a high percentage of them," I mean ALL of them! It may sound impossible, or seem more likely that I just got lucky. But, since I work with between 50 and 60 students per week, the odds of it being the result of sheer chance are close to zero.

Jarrelainen, when you get the book, I will put you into contact with some great guys here in Norway, who use B.E. We can discuss it in our own laguage (to the rest of you: Swedish and Norwegian are very close).

Get B.E - absolutely recommended!

Ole


[ This Message was edited by: oj on 2003-11-27 17:18 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jarrelainen
Veteran Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 264

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok! I'll check that interview out, and yes, I am going to order that book.
It seems to hold so much logic in its approach.

BTW I have to say that I'm very impressed by your pages Ole, they are so full of information and interesting stuff to check out, so people go cehck it NOW!

Well, that sounds very good, I could use some help, and its always easier to talk in Swedish/Norwegian.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Larrios
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 794
Location: Serooskerke (Walcheren), The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there!

Just felt a need to write a little note. On the forum there has already been a lot of talk about roll in. Especially concerning the high notes. I think we shouldn't forget the roll out part here. To get more cushion, the lips and corners will move forward as well, next to rolling in. They work together.

Ko
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
HJ
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ko,

Glad you bring this up. I thought nobody was going to talk about the roll-out part. Maybe this is worth a new topic, for the roll-out part is easier for most of us, but the strange thing is that my beginners (mostly children of about 9 or 10 years) play the roll-in with no problem at all, almost all of them!!! The roll-out is much more difficult to them. Also the people with huge chop problems tend to have big problems with the roll-out part. The moment they play a nice double pedal C most of the time this is the first step towards an open and relaxed tone. Roll-out to me is the real magic part of BE. It sounds crazy to do it, and all my students laugh at me, but they all benefit from it. And since the topic here is mpc. pressure, the roll-out adds a LOT to playing with very little mpc. pressure. And what's even more important, the pressure that is required ( no such thing as'no presssure' playing!) is not harmful anymore because of the much stronger cushion.
I think it is worth starting a new topic about this.

Bert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Larrios
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 794
Location: Serooskerke (Walcheren), The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bert!

I agree, it would be a good idea to have a new topic here. Personally, it took me just as long to find out a way to make the roll out work as the roll in. It both took me ages. And as you know, my chop problems were HUGE! But I'm on the right track now and not anyone will kick me off the trail again. Rule BE, lalaaalalalalaaaaaa! More to come later, I'm very short of time at the moment.

Ko
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group