Dent Removal - anyone using SUPER MAGNETS in the USA ???

Tarh331_Dad · Veteran Member Joined: 30 May 2013 Posts: 185

About a year ago, I stumbled upon this really nifty method for dent removal, coming out of Italy:

Straightening out brass instruments
http://www.supermagnete.de/eng/Magnet-applications/Straightening-out-brass-instruments

And then the other day, I learned that a French Horn specialist in the UK is offering this service on the horns which he repairs:

‘Wiltshiring’ involves:
• the removal of all dents using our super-sophisticated (and extremely expensive!) non-invasive rare earth magnetic dent removal system – the first (and currently the only) one in the UK...
http://www.hornsaplenty.com/wiltshiring.html

And that got me to wondering - are there any brass repair shops in the USA which are working with super magnets?

Thanks.

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject:

Some shops use them with caution. They're not for DIY.

http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=50574
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LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject:

mcgovnor · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: yes

the only way

yourbrass · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject:

A risky way.
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etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6177

This method was better suited for tubas rather than trumpets?

dr_trumpet · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:56 pm Post subject:

A local shop I know uses them on the larger horns (baritones and tubas mostly), and then very carefully. They were a great idea, and the magnets are VERY strong. I can only imagine the amount of crumple in a trumpet bell that these magnets could RAPIDLY cause in untrained hands.
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James Becker · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:06 am Post subject:

We've been using magnetic dent removal on large brass instruments for over 10 years. The ability to remove dents from tubing 2" or smaller is very limited and works best on tubas and euphoniums where braces and such are not in the way. As for safety, you must be very careful around sharp steel objects, pacemakers, credit card data strips, the list goes on. Unlike the electro magnetic dent remove system pioneered decades ago at Ferree's you can't shut this type of magnet off.
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musicalmason1 · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:26 am Post subject:

As James stated, these are best used on low brass. They are basically useless on trumpets, because steel balls that fit inside trumpet tubing just don't have enough mass and magnetic pull to actually move metal.

Also as stated, these can be very dangerous. The larger balls have the potential to crush all the bones in your hands if they get caught in between the magnet and the ball. Forget about blood blisters, were talking serious damage here.
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yourbrass · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:50 am Post subject:

I can see the application for low brass and saxophones. I don't know whether the European links posted above are using this:
http://www.magneticdentremovalsystem.com/about_mdrs.html

In the past, this method had a bad rep for safety issues and it certainly isn't new, although the link above shows a more sophisticated and well-thought-out system than I've seen before.

That being said, here's a few safety warnings from the same Web site:

http://www.magneticdentremovalsystem.com/images/safety_warning_05.jpg

The warning that kills me is: "Do not keep ferrous, steel, or magnetic objects within 5 to 6 feet of your work area while using the system. Establish a 'ferrous-free' zone when using (it.)"

That about does it for me - we have a "ferrous-rich" environment in the shop and make one mistake...
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razeontherock · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:14 am Post subject:

chuck in ny · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject:

this is like a ferrari tune up. leave it to someone else.

yourbrass · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject:

You'd need a "clean room," or area of sorts, at least 10' x 10' to 12' x 12.'

And don't make any mistakes.

Seriously, for lower brass, it looks really good. Trumpets, it would be useless, as the makers themselves wrote on the Web site.
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etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6177

Ferree's system with ELECTRO magnets makes much more sense. You can adjust the current as needed and do not have to have it on all the time. Of course, there are other safety issues with the current involved.

Thus, for safety, even if the end result is less than perfect, or takes longer to get in shape, please stay with classic methods (no magnets). No one wants the repairers to suffer.

jmichaelhurt · Veteran Member Joined: 19 Nov 2009 Posts: 288

We've used the magnets at Rich's shop for 7-8 years now and they are kinda scary sometimes. You can easily spend just as much time putting dents in horns as you can taking them out. It's tricky stuff for sure! The phone, wallet, and keys get put way aside and you better do some stretching cause your arms and shoulders will get a hell of a workout! I don't like using them at all but it beats taking a bell bow off a tuba.
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C.E.Divine · Veteran Member Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 285

We use them at independent music service mainly on sousaphones, tubas and euphoniums so we don't have to take bell bows or branches off. We were sharing a set with our Little Rock location and just got our own set, so we haven't used them much at all on euphoniums, but when schools start sending instruments for summer repair we will probably get more chances.

The problem with using them on trumpets is the size and thickness of the tubing compared to the magnet of our MDRS system, and the general ease of accessibility to most dents. It is not worth the time saved when there is the chance of thinning the metal to the point it cracks when we have other more accurate and controllable methods of dent removal at our fingertips.
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yourbrass · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject:

My colleague at the shop suggested taking the horn out in the driveway with the magnets - that would probably work - unless the sewer pipe came up out of the ground!
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