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Correct Buzzing Technique


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rhodf
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject: Correct Buzzing Technique Reply with quote

As I have worked on both lip and mouthpiece buzzing, I have noticed that there are 3 main ways that I can produce a buzz. I wanted to get some feedback as to which of these methods would be more in line with what Mr. Stamp taught or if none of these approaches is correct.

I am including a diagram below to help explain what I am feeling when I buz. NOTE: I am not trying to accurately describe what it looks like, but what it feels like although they should be similar.



A----------------B-----------C-------------B--------------------A

- Your lip
A The physical ends of your lips
B Where you mouthpiece rests
C The dead center of the lip

Method 1: Keep A firm and let everything else be loose. This gives a real "raspberry" type buzz and causes a fair amount of upper and lower lip roll out

Method 2: Keep B firm. A ends up being a little less firm and C is very loose. These gives a more focused raspberry type buzz with a small amount of lip rollout.

Method 3: Bring C together to form a very small hole. B is slightly touching and A is loose. In addition, the lips tend to flatten from left to right and thin rather than the other two methods where the lips are more fleshy in the mouthpiece. This produces an angry fly buzz which is higher in pitch. The chops roll in for this method.

I assume that Stamp intended the set up to be the same between free buzz and mouthpiece buzzing. If not, which method would he have recommended for each.

I am relatively new to buzzing, so I want to get started correctly.

Thanks,
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JMKennedyJr
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonderful post. Thanks!!
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Glord1894
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Roy Poper's book on Stamp, he talks about being as relaxed as possible while lip buzzing. Your third method sounds like it would be too tight and pinched. Maybe something between method 1 and 2. Another point: when buzzing on the mouthpiece, if you remove the mouthpiece from the lips but keep buzzing, it should drop about an octave in pitch (the lip buzz is an octave lower). That's a good test also.
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chris_kallmyer
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject: Buzzing - air first Reply with quote

Hello! Great post - and great subject. I've always felt that the priority of focus for your buzz is on
1. the air
2. the air
3. the air

the other details to concern yourself with is the relaxed grip of the non-dominant hand on the mouthpiece with two fingers.

Love buzzing. Do lots!
Chris
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Gate
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've recently become totally enamored with jug bass buzzing. It does so many things: it connects the ear to the playing mechanism, so you have good intonation; it balances the wind and lip tension; it helps with breathing in tempo; and best of all, it's quiet enough and strange and playful enough that it kind of all just falls in place while you have fun and relax!

You don't need a jug. You DO need to be able to hear clearly in your head a simple bass line alternating from root to the fifth, and a simple song to play along with. Don't worry about mechanics too much. Pay attention to two things only: keeping in tempo (without running out of breath or getting stale breath!!!) and hearing the bass line in your head. Keep those two things above all else in your mind. You might be surprised just how full a tone you can get and how exact a pitch you can make just by having fun. Relax, you're just pretending to be a yokel!

The trick is to translate this effortless blow onto the trumpet. On the jug, you are playing really low notes, and you have to resist the urge to do a whole lot just because the notes coming out of the horn are a couple octaves up.

I buzz in about the same register as this guy here:


Link
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Stamp trained teacher showed a buzz that's more similar to your Method 2, though he never emphasized that any portion should be either firm or loose. By contrast he never seems to welcome anything but a relatively relaxed embouchure for buzzing. That's not to say the lips were flaccid, they are just held in place but with little or no tension.
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trumpettaylor123
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:15 am    Post subject: Mouthpiece Buzzing Reply with quote

I do it from time to time but do not hold myself hostage to it for every warm up. When I do it I make sure I do it sitting at the piano and buzzing it tune and not just random buzzing.
Air control is the goal and as Alen Vizzutti taught me. "Try to approach everything on the trumpet with the least amount of effort or strain as possible".

Larry
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trumanjazzguy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzzing is NOT the same as the motion of the lips when playing the trumpet. Playing the leadpipe is the closest alternative to playing the trumpet. Any mouthpiece buzzing is alien to what we're doing on the horn and, in the end, isn't totally helpful.
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Correct Reply with quote

Lead with the air always. It's a tricky technique but can be extremely beneficial.
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumanjazzguy wrote:
Any mouthpiece buzzing is alien to what we're doing on the horn and, in the end, isn't totally helpful.


Says "Trumanjazzguy".

The trumpet is like life - there are no absolutes. If more people would learn that, there would be much better trumpet playing happening in the world.

Also, you're in a dedicated forum, homeslice. As the kids say; "check yo self".
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oj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumanjazzguy,

Julie Landsman, former principal horn with the Met. in NY, uses free buzzing in her teaching. Here is an exercise she got from Carmine Caruso - "Lips/mouthpiece/horn".
Listen to what she says about buzzing! The best result is when you do not try to make the lip buzz like when playing the horn:

https://youtu.be/7z9izjmCmkI?t=1m

Ole
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject: Perhaps Reply with quote

Perhaps, OJ...
You can share your knowledge based upon expeience and or the reaction of your own students, or better yet, both?
There is plenty to read regarding playing the mouthpiece, on both sides of the Jordan.
Many encourage it, and as many discourage it...maybe more.
I've found the most benefit, in a 20-30 minute session as a stand alone first thing in the day followed by a rest of equal time.
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oj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgovnor,

My first real introduction to buzzing (both lips and mpc) was in 1977. It was during a great seminar with Bud Herseth here in Norway. I arranged that some of us yourg guys had lessons with a student of Jimmy Stamp. His name was John Taber (he was principal in Rotterdam). He had the draft of what was later the Stamp book (published by BIM). I still have a copy of that. My teacher in Norwy did not like this, so I stopped.

Later I have used it after meeting several proponents of this method. Now after almost a month away (I just came back from China) from all brass, I use "lip/mpc/horn" more than normal to get back into shape.

Here is one of the teachers I have learned about buzzing from, Jim Thompson:

http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/report/thompson/

Thompson was pragmatic, but said that for him buzzing worked.

I find that teaching beginners on trumpet to play on the mouthpiece early, works very well. I use call & response - play a little melody and the kids repeat. Very soon they can play quite advanced on the mpc alone. (No valves messing it up, just using the ears)


Ole
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:16 pm    Post subject: thank you Reply with quote

Thank you for your response.
Are you the person who bought the French Besson Brevette from Rod Baltimores shop in NY in around 1983...i was coming in to buy it and someone from Norway played it while I was on my way in and bought it, out from under me
I'm aware of all the major mouthpiece playing approaches and pedagogy, thank you.
Wonderful to hear your experience teaching and employing the technique with students.
There are 2 buzzing aides I've found very helpful. One is made by The Brass Lab in NY, Dial a Blow...and the other is the Buzz Aide sold on the Song and Wind site.
You mentioned Bud H. I know he buzzed as a stand alone, usually, and apart from playing the horn. I've found this is the best way for me, as well.
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oj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgovnor,
No I was not that person.

Speaking of the pedagogy of buzzing. As I understand there are the "West Coast" and the "East Coast" line of teaching. In the West, we have the Chicago School (see that forum here on TH) and this forum - is "the East".

Two central figures are Arnold Jacobs (East) and Jimmy Stamp (West). Jacobs did not like lip buzzing, Stamp did.

I think both realised the usefulness of playing on the mouthpiece alone. Jacobs after being in hospital and only having his mouthpiece. Stamp after building himself up after some heart troubles.

Herseth spoke about his use of the mouthpiece over here in 1977. He would kick the trumpet into the closet for his summer holiday. A week before the autumn rehearsal started, he would take the mouthpiece with him on the golf court and play on it.
When he demonstrated, I remember that he played some melodies quite loud with a singing sound. He also said that that was what he liked. Not doing anything else (like Stamp exercises etc) - only melodic playing.

Lip buzzing.
Gail Williams (horn player with CSO) was a student of Jacobs. She used lip buzzing a lot. Why? She had to drive a tractor on the farm where she grew up. On the tractor she lip buzzed horn concertos one octave down.

(She talks about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T00oOStwMI)

So, people can find things useful that other try to not do.

Ole
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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oj wrote:
mcgovnor,

My first real introduction to buzzing (both lips and mpc) was in 1977. It was during a great seminar with Bud Herseth here in Norway. I arranged that some of us yourg guys had lessons with a student of Jimmy Stamp. His name was John Taber (he was principal in Rotterdam). He had the draft of what was later the Stamp book (published by BIM). I still have a copy of that. My teacher in Norwy did not like this, so I stopped.

Later I have used it after meeting several proponents of this method. Now after almost a month away (I just came back from China) from all brass, I use "lip/mpc/horn" more than normal to get back into shape.

Here is one of the teachers I have learned about buzzing from, Jim Thompson:

http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/report/thompson/

Thompson was pragmatic, but said that for him buzzing worked.

I find that teaching beginners on trumpet to play on the mouthpiece early, works very well. I use call & response - play a little melody and the kids repeat. Very soon they can play quite advanced on the mpc alone. (No valves messing it up, just using the ears)


Ole


Interesting to hear about John Taber. He was also Principal in Montreal when Jim Thompson was there. John toured Europe with Stamp acting as his interpreter and he is pictured in Stamp's Warmup book with the master. He told me that Stamp was very genuine and nice man.
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oj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to hear, trumpet56

Here are two photos from 1977 with John Taber:

http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/herseth/sem_picture1.html

Ole
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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oj wrote:
Nice to hear, trumpet56

Here are two photos from 1977 with John Taber:

http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/herseth/sem_picture1.html

Ole


Thank you for the photos Ole. I followed John into a couple of jobs after he left those positions. He was an incredible trumpet player a strong temperament. I believe he originally studied with Roger Voisin in Boston.
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:43 am    Post subject: I Reply with quote

Free buzzing is for me, a morning thing, like coffee. Fapping a little as well. Just not any of it too much.
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mcgov - Thanks for the post man - After reading what you said, and of course being familiar with your playing and pedagogy, I took up a 20-30 min buzz routine..Just arpeggios, stamp flow..connecting everything.. I'm using the buzz-aide that I got awhile back on your recommend. Pretty fantastic results already. I was just curious - What model of the 'dial-a-buzz' are you using? Chuck has several advertised and I'm not quite clear on the difference between each - one looks like it's adjustable with resistance.. Don't think I want to mess with that..just keeping it simple and fundamental usually works best for me with the horn. Thanks and all the best, Lex
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