Cornet mps: DW 4 vs 4.5 vs 4B

x9ret · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: Cornet mps: DW 4 vs 4.5 vs 4B

Hi everyone,
I'm playing principal cornet in a brass band regularly now. Am using Denis Wick mouthpieces.

Right now I'm thinking there is just no ideal mouthpiece for all the requirements on a principal cornet player nowadays in the top section.

For modern test pieces, surely a 4B is the most comfortable. Since your typical solo goes up to high D nowadays.

For Christmas music, then this is not the case. Usually solos can be quite low, so 4B is tricky down there. 4 or 4.5 (which I've just bought) makes life easier.

Current thinking is use 4B at all times then switch to 4 or 4.5 for any low or medium register solos.

After using 4.5 briefly, I struggle to tell the difference between it and 4. Although I've heard people say you get less tired on the 4.5.
_________________
https://payhip.com/sheetmusicplayalong

gbshelbymi · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:18 am Post subject:

It would make sense that for some the 4.5 is a bit easier to play. It's got a slightly narrower cup diameter, and a slightly smaller throat (bore), so both of those factors will improve playability for some people.
_________________
Greg
---------------------
Getzen 3850 Custom - Kanstul 1525 Flugelhorn - Getzen Severinsen Eterna LB - 70s Bach 180ML37 - 70s Bach CL 229 25C - CarolBrass Pocket - 40 Conn 80A etc.

GordonH · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:27 am Post subject:

Its a problem and there is no real solution because composers seem to want trumpety bits and flugely bits from the same cornet soloist. Probably something shallower that can be played fluffily as required by relaxing into it is the solution.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

x9ret · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:41 am Post subject:

Thanks guys. Will let you know how it goes. Gordon - I am on a Yamaha Maestro cornet too now.
_________________
https://payhip.com/sheetmusicplayalong

TKSop · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:06 am Post subject:

Definitely appreciate the dilemma.

I don't get on with the rims on Wick mouthpieces and although they're playable, they make life a lot harder work than it should/needs to be.

There are mouthpieces from other manufacturers that fall somewhere inbetween (in terms of sound) that would be worth looking at:
- Sparx (plain no-letter variety) is a lot easier to play than either Wick (imho) and the sound sits somewhere in the middle.
- Marcinkiewicz 5XW (you might prefer the 5*W, same quoted cup depth but narrower), good soloist sound a touch brighter than a NL-Wick but softer than Wick-B, a very comfy rim profile and plays easily.
- Yamaha 16E - which used to come with the Maestro cornets - a little brighter than the NL-Wick, easier to play though. Easy to get hold of these.
- Warburton BC's - very comfy rims and a good sound (close to the NL's) but the throat (#27) is tight and makes getting a full range of dynamics harder.

Everything is (as always with mouthpieces) a bit of a compromise.
The Sparx and Marcinkiewicz are the best I've found (for me), for different reasons. I'd thoroughly recommend trying either (the Marc's are cheaper and easier to get hold of in the UK)

Richard III · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:48 am Post subject:

You had me thinking about the Marcinkiewicz until I looked at the measurements. Too bad they don't make smaller diameter in that configuration:

http://www.marcinkiewicz.com/mouthpieces/cornet/standard/

And the #23 drill of the bore seems too tight. Glad it works for you.

Cheers.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

oxleyk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180

Personally, I want something like a Curry 3 rim on a Wick deep funnel cup.

Kent

TKSop · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:30 am Post subject:

McVouty · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 149

The Curry DC (deep cornet) range might be worth a look - its kind in between Bach and Dennis Wick in terms of sound and playability with a bach style rim and wick style cup - so you can blend when needed and 'shine' when you have to without busting a gut. I use the curry 3DC. which is marginally larger diameter than DW 4, but much more comfy on my lips.

Other than that, maybe you could work on improving your lower register sound on the 4B if you need to stick to DW (in my limited experience many British cornetists believe that you can only get a 'true' cornet sound on the wick mouthpieces).

Landrewp · Regular Member Joined: 07 May 2012 Posts: 45

You could try an Alliance 3A (or RM 3A) which is half way between a DW 4 and 4b. I also find the Heritage mouthpieces easier to play on than the classic models.

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

This is an old thread but will post here to save making a new one...

What's the difference between the Wick 4 and 4.5?

Comments above suggest (as the number would make you expect) that it is narrower, but the wick website lists it as being the exact same diameter - 16.50

So I don't quite get what the difference is?

Am looking for something between a Bach 7 and 10.5C, so the 4.5 would have been my guess except apparently not?

GordonH · Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:13 pm Post subject:

The 4.5 is identical to a 4, but it has a narrower throat.
Many many years ago Denis told me it was to achieve a more old fashioned sound, for people who wanted that, but a lot of people find the narrower throat helps overcome issues with some of the large bore cornets.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

Ahh okay, thanks! And then the Wick 5 is significantly smaller than a 10.5C judging from the specs. Drat.

GordonH · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:46 pm Post subject:

It isn't comparable because it has f latter, broader rim.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

GordonH · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 4:50 am Post subject:

They have changed the stated measurements for a lot of mouthpieces over the years.

Denis himself told me they introduced the 4 1/2 because of the demand for tighter throated mouthpieces like the Yamaha and McCann ones that were based on older designs of mouthpiece.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

sd4f · Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 5:29 am Post subject:

I always felt that the straight 4 was a bit of work to play on, it never gave me a reliable high register, but I didn't go back to a 4B either.

I tried a Yamaha 16E, and that was a real solid improvement, as it just seemed to improve everything, even though it's a bigger mouthpiece, sound improved, somewhat easier to play with finesse and agility. It's by no means an easy high range mouthpiece, but I felt it's easier to play high than a DW 4.