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Using Rubber Bands to Hold Slides In


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TrumpetDoctors
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Using Rubber Bands to Hold Slides In Reply with quote

I tried using rubber bands to hold the 1st and 3rd slides in and to aid in them springing back, but it left black marks on the valve casing that won't come off. Kind of like burn marks, they apparently corrode right through the silver in very little time. Anyone know how to fit that? The typical silver polish rag doesn't help at all. ---Thanks!
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use ponytail holders. Don't they teach that in trumpet doctor school?
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't corrode through. The sulphur in the rubber combines with the silver to create silver sulphide, tarnish. Really good silver tarnish.

I had luck in reducing the marks left by the gutter guard using the aluminum foil, baking soda and boiling water. They didn't go completely away, but are almost gone.
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SilentBang
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
They don't corrode through. The sulphur in the rubber combines with the silver to create silver sulphide, tarnish. Really good silver tarnish.

I had luck in reducing the marks left by the gutter guard using the aluminum foil, baking soda and boiling water. They didn't go completely away, but are almost gone.


I was taught that boiling water causes the braces to pop because the solder and the brass have different coefficients of expansion, but how did that go? I'm curious because I've never tried anything more than lukewarm water
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snichols
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know about fixing it, but I will second the idea of using hair ties (pony tail holders). They have soft coatings and I've been using them for years without incident.
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MacMichael
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snichols wrote:
Don't know about fixing it, but I will second the idea of using hair ties (pony tail holders). They have soft coatings and I've been using them for years without incident.

Ha, sure thing! #3

Positive slide effect: it is secured and will not get loose
Positive side effect: you see more girls with beautiful hair worn loose


Last edited by MacMichael on Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I high school I succeeded in reversing a nasty case of a mouthpiece turned purple when the silver plating was attacked by a disinfectant bath in chlorine. I believe that a soak in a weak solution of hydrochloric acid did the trick. Can't say if the same would work here. Proceed with caution.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oxleyk wrote:
Use ponytail holders. Don't they teach that in trumpet doctor school?


+1
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SALUKIGUY
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used pony tail holders and they also caused black marks. I really don't want to try that again.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SilentBang wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
They don't corrode through. The sulphur in the rubber combines with the silver to create silver sulphide, tarnish. Really good silver tarnish.

I had luck in reducing the marks left by the gutter guard using the aluminum foil, baking soda and boiling water. They didn't go completely away, but are almost gone.


I was taught that boiling water causes the braces to pop because the solder and the brass have different coefficients of expansion, but how did that go? I'm curious because I've never tried anything more than lukewarm water

I followed the instructions posted here on TH a while back by Don Herman. It called for boiling water. That is what I used and nothing happened.

Don Herman rev2 wrote:
Heat the water to boiling. Remove it from the heat and place it in a sink. To the hot water, add about one cup of baking soda for each gallon of water. (If you need only half a gallon of water, use half a cup of baking soda.) The mixture will froth a bit and may spill over; this is why you put it in the sink.

Pour the hot baking soda and water mixture into the pan, and completely cover the silver.


In later posts I that I just found Don warns against using boiling water.
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, I do not recommend actually dumping the horn in boiling water because of the risk of popping solder joints. Pretty sure that's in every post I made about the procedure; if not, it should be.

In any event, bearing in mind my college inorganic chemistry classes were decades ago, sulfur found in natural rubber and perhaps some synthetics creates a very tight bond with the silver (much tighter than "normal" oxidation) and is almost impossible to remove. For this reason I have always advocated against using rubber bands, And yes I learned the hard way!

Repeated application of the baking soda method is all I have had any success with outside of working with a real chemist (in a PCB shop, not the person most players would know).

Do NOT try to clean it off with silver polish; you, or at least I, will wear through the finish to get rid of the tarnish.

IME/IMO/IMwhatever - Don
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use hair ties.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SALUKIGUY wrote:
I used pony tail holders and they also caused black marks. I really don't want to try that again.

In my limited experience, various types of hair ties provide various amounts of insulation from the offending rubber. I suspect all will discolor the silver in time, particularly as they wear and the insulating material compresses or abrades.
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homecookin
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the same problem with my old Bach 43 lightweight.
I used a product called Tarn -EX which is made by 3M
(Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Corporation )
Tarn- Ex is a tarnish remover, it is not a silver polish.
It took a little elbow grease but it did remove the black marks that were left by the rubber bands.
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O-rings for slides are $7 a dozen at Osmun. My stock o-rings still going great after 18 months, think I can spring for the replacements when necessary.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O-rings for the individual slide tubes that keep it from clunking is not what's being discussed here. It's a band that attaches to a movable slide that pulls it back towards the valve block when you let go.
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha provides a silicone rubber slide stopper with their Xeno trumpets. They say that it won't mar the finish because it's made of silicone rubber, not latex rubber. (Silicone won't stain the finish; latex will.)

The Horn Guys website has a page for this product, but they currently show out of stock. Anyway, here's a page that shows a picture of this product and describes the benefit of silicone vs. latex rubber:

http://hornguys.myshopify.com/products/xeno-trumpet-slide-stopper

You might try to find this at another retailer or find some kind of rubber band made from silicone.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SALUKIGUY wrote:
I used pony tail holders and they also caused black marks. I really don't want to try that again.


Me too; apparently some of them allow rubber to contact the finish.

Brad
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: t Reply with quote

Trumpet doctor school..
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those little elastic luggage tag strings will also work, but they are abrasive and will rub a thin line into the finish.

Funny how people almost universally hate slide triggers, yet want this feature anyway.
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