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Claude Gordon systematic approach to daily practice



 
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Chefcaleb
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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Location: Muncy, pa

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:14 am    Post subject: Claude Gordon systematic approach to daily practice Reply with quote

Okay, so it has been about 8 to 10 years since I was serious about playing. And for my birthday my wife got me the Claude Gordon book. I like it, but goodness does it take patience. For someone with severe ADD it is almost impossible. But so far so good. Anyway, what I don't understand is this: is the point to be able to play all that is written before moving on. Like I'm one number three and about half way through section 2 it gets to a high E and that's about it for me at this point. However there is a lot more to that section. Should I keep at it the next day and the next until I can play it all or is it okay to move on? That's the part he doesn't talk about. Anyway, any help in the matter would be great.

Also open to any other books to try that help with range and endurance. I already have the arbans and Clarke
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jungledoc
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only tell you how my Bruce Haag uses it for me. He studied with Gordon for many years, and is "Claude Gordon Certified." I didn't start SA until about a year and a half into my lessons, and it is not the only book we're using. (At the moment or recently I've worked on material out of Irons, Arbans, some others.) If you don't have a teacher, it would probably be best do do each lesson just as Gordon instructs in the written explanation. When range is the limitation, just go as high (or as low) as you can, following Gordon's "three tries and you're out" rule. Then move ahead. The printed range goes way beyond what many people can do. If you wait until you can play it all, you'll be on each lesson for years. There is a lot to learn in each lesson, and it would be a shame not to get to material that you need, just because you don't have fantastic range.

Claude Gordon customized all of the material he used in teaching for the needs of the particular student. He would write out exercises by hand many times. Bruce says he played most of the material in SA long before the book was published, and many of the exercises would be changed on the fly. Bruce is constantly customizing and adapting the material in SA and other books for my needs at any given moment. Which leads to the final bit of advice--get some lessons. Bruce and many others teach lessons on-line via Skype or Facetime. John Mohan, who posts regularly here was also a CG student, and teaches on-line lessons.
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Chefcaleb
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, great that's very helpful. I was very confused thinking I had to hit the highest note before moving on. Thanks for reassuring me.
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EricV
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

have a look at the dedicated Claude Gordon forum in here, there is a heap of helpful information from the teachers and pupils of this method
eric
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mark61
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:12 pm    Post subject: CG Reply with quote

Jungledoc , is right on.
At some point John Mohan will see this post and give you some info. Probably in the next few hours. He will break it down for you. He probably will tell you to make your first go through a 2 year plan, depending on your time allotment. It's intense.
Sad to say I could not hang with it . May give it another shake.
John will definitely break it down for you.

Blessings
Mark
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jungledoc
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you been through Physical Approach? If not, I'd do that first. In fact I did it 1 1/2 times before going on to SA. After going through once, we went back to about the middle, and went through to the end, with modifications to make the exercises more challenging.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Claude Gordon systematic approach to daily practice Reply with quote

Chefcaleb wrote:
Okay, so it has been about 8 to 10 years since I was serious about playing. And for my birthday my wife got me the Claude Gordon book. I like it, but goodness does it take patience. For someone with severe ADD it is almost impossible. But so far so good. Anyway, what I don't understand is this: is the point to be able to play all that is written before moving on. Like I'm one number three and about half way through section 2 it gets to a high E and that's about it for me at this point. However there is a lot more to that section. Should I keep at it the next day and the next until I can play it all or is it okay to move on? That's the part he doesn't talk about. Anyway, any help in the matter would be great.

Also open to any other books to try that help with range and endurance. I already have the arbans and Clarke


Welcome back to (serious) practicing and playing!

The instructions in Systematic Approach are pretty clear regarding how long to stay on a lesson (one week) and the fact that you certainly do not need to play all that is written before moving on to the next lesson, had you read them, Mr. ADD man! (I can tease you about ADD, because I am a fellow ADHD person!). Oh, look at that Butterfly! What were we talking about?!

If you stayed on a lesson until you could play all the way to the double C, what would be the point of doing the next lesson? Yes, I am still teasing you. If you don't now hate me, I'd be happy to help you now and in the future.

Seriously, there are a few things to know regarding the book:

Claude wrote it fairly early in his teaching career. As he taught and gained experience, it became clear to him that Systematic Approach builds up material too quickly and most players that follow it exactly as written are over-practicing by the tenth lesson in the book. If you choose to follow the book as written, stay on each lesson for a solid two weeks instead of just one.

Claude usually assigned his personal students (including me) flexibility exercises at the beginning of the day, followed by various other exercises including the Clarke Technical Studies, material from St Jacome and Arban (and many other books) and then usually the Systematic Approach Part One and Part Two type exercises were done at the end of the day.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Webcam Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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aardvark
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Joined: 13 May 2014
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Location: western n.y.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too was in the same situation with the Claude Gordon studies.Someone here pointed out the "Daily Embouchure Studies" by Edwin Franco Goldman. It not very expensive,and gives a good variety of studies that you can actually make to the end of the book, only about 10 pages or so.Nothing worse than practicing and getting discouraged.You might want to check it out.Now I use the Claude Gordon studies along with the Goldman studies and a few others I came across.I try to keep my practice interesting enough so that I enjoy and look forward to practicing.I have made great progress in my 1 1/2 year come back after a 50 year lay off...I'm sure anyone can....just keep your practice interesting.
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homecookin
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a big believer in the Edwin Franco Goldman method...Daily Embouchure Studies.
Practicing out of that book, especially the long tones, has done more to improve my playing than any other methods I have practiced.
By practicing the long tones in that method I have increased my range from topping out at a high F sharp, to a double high C, and a high G that is there all the time.
The key to doing the long tones and getting the most benefit from them, in my opinion, is to practice them softly and always hold the tone down to a whisper.
Of course the scales, tonguing exercises, and arpeggios are very beneficial also.
The only issue I have is the fact that in his written instructions Goldman says it only takes 20 minutes to do this routine... Well, I have never played through this entire book in 20 minutes, but it is a very beneficial book to work out of daily.
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StupidBrassObsession
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Joined: 25 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Claude Gordon systematic approach to daily practice Reply with quote

Personally, I haven't found adding other books to the CG stuff to be helpful. I've experimented with adding stuff, and in the end, I've always, every time, found I'm better off just sticking to the CG materials. Just my 2c of experience.
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solo soprano
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Claude Gordon systematic approach to daily practice Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:

Claude wrote it fairly early in his teaching career. As he taught and gained experience, it became clear to him that Systematic Approach builds up material too quickly and most players that follow it exactly as written are over-practicing by the tenth lesson in the book.
John Mohan


"Don't stop where I have, but go further."
CG

That's exactly what one of Claude's star students Bill Knevitt did in his "The Ultra-Trumpet Crash Course for Home Study" with the 52 accompanying audio files for each lesson. Where Claude's SA builds up too fast as John points out, Bill's doesn't. As Bill mentions in the first lesson on the audio for the first lesson, "For the advanced players this 1st lesson may seem to be a little on the easy side. The reason for this is that I would rather be a little bit behind the advanced player that way ahead of the intermediate player." Plus, using the audio files is like having Bill & Claude sitting next to you as you go thru each lesson. In many ways Bill's systematic approach is better thought out and is superior to Claudes'. I've been thru both more than a few times. Claude Gordon himself made fabulous endorsements about Bill Knevitt such as, "Of all of the trumpet teachers that I know Bill Knevitt is simply the best."
Find Bill's systematic approach, give it a try @ http://www.latorremusic.com/La_Torre_Music/Endurance_and_Flexibility.html
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