Allergy to mouthpiece material???

cag022 · Regular Member Joined: 25 Sep 2014 Posts: 21

So I had a conversation with someone after discussing a not-so-recent problem with my playing. When talking to this particular person I had expressed how it is incredible how quick my lip gets that "red ring" where the mouthpiece touches and how I feel like for the past year or so I ALWAYS feel beat and bruised no matter how efficient I am playing or how many days off the horn I take off. I always blamed it on grad school, and now that I am out, I blamed it on the constant gigging.

As the conversation went on, in passing, my friend stated maybe you have allergy to silver. I was hesitant on believing him. I quickly declined that possibility since ALL my life I have been on silver mouthpiece (as a matter of fact, I have NEVER played gold) and backfired with "dont you have to get a rash on your lips or something drastic for that to be true?"

He shared an article with me that state that there may be two kinds of symptoms. The one I ignorantly stated and another one which can be described as feeling like you have rubber lips and constantly swelling and feeling like you are bruised.

What are your experience with allergy to a material? And can you get it later in your life? In my case, maybe within the last year and a half which is where I have yet to feel like my old self. Something does for sure feel different with my playing.

In addition, my only experience with playing a gold mouthpiece has been 2 weeks ago (a week before I had this conversation with my friend), where I was warming up on this gold Bach mega tone 1B. I would only warming up on it and then switched back to my Bach 1C silver for the heavy lifting. It was by far one of the best weeks I have ever had. But I always though it was because of how big the mouthpiece was that it felt great....now I am thinking maybe the gold played a roll in this. Coincidence????

Thoughts??

Fabio jackson · Regular Member Joined: 01 Aug 2015 Posts: 76

That's really interesting! Thanks for posting the experience.
After I've played for an extended period with the mouthpiece on my lips, part of my lip is purple for a few seconds after that and I also get very red looking lips (even after playing low notes) and I wonder if it might be an allergy to the metal?
Do you have thick red lips or thin lips?

falado · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:41 am Post subject:

Hi, give Trent Austin at Austin Custom Brass a shout. I met him on a gig he was doing last year. I think he was playing on a rhodium (?) plated mouthpiece, or something like that, because he's allergic to silver plating. You can also try Lexan or any of the other synthetic materials used for mouthpieces.

Dave
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Geodude · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:45 am Post subject:

If you use the search function you should find some old threads addressing mouthpiece allergies. Just because you haven't had an allergic reaction to something before does not mean that it can't happen now (or in the future). Gold, stainless, Delrin or Lexan might be options for you. If you want to check things out a Lexan Kelly would let you investigate for a pretty modest investment (<$20) plus you get a choice of about a zillion colors...Something more conventional in gold plate or stainless, or a synthetic top (Warburton does Delrin, Lexan, and rubber/Warburtonite) on a 2-piece set up might sound more like what you are used to.

GarryOwen2008 · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:51 pm Post subject:

I slowly developed symptoms of a nickel allergy over time, with the most notable being a burning sensation and significant lip fatigue. I've played only a gold plated piece for the last 9 months or so and have had no issues whatsoever since the switch.
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Jazztrumpeter · New Member Joined: 08 Aug 2015 Posts: 1

I also developed a nickel allergy last year and I have always been playing silver mouthpieces. As GarryOwen2008 stated the most notable symptoms for me was also a burning sensation and lip fatigue, but also swollen lips and loss of range and endurance. Since then I have been playing on plastic mouthpieces and I haven't had any problems, except for a few times when I tried to play a silver mouthpiece again. When I was playing last year and experienced playing with allergy everything was much more difficult to play and even playing above a C in the staff could be a problem

I think the best thing you can do is to contact a doctor and see if you can make an allergy test for different metals, I did and they could easily see that I was allergic to nickel and chrome. If you think that you have a metal allergy I think it's worth checking or at least trying to play a plastic or maybe gold mouthpiece.

(I apologise my bad English, English isn't my native language)

Adam

Tarh331_Dad · Veteran Member Joined: 30 May 2013 Posts: 185

A few thoughts:

1) Allergies are part of your immune response, and your immune system is NOT constant over the course of your life. So it is at least theoretically possible that an immune response could come and go and come again and go again etc etc etc. [And since the immune response is so very closely tied to the body's hormones, I wouldn't be at all surprised if pre-menopausal women experienced this sort of thing over the course of their 28-day cycles. Similarly, they could very well develop allergies to things only during pregnancy, and the very worst case of this is when they are allergic to the child in their womb.]

2) Never misunderestimate the psychologicals and the Placebo Effect [and its inverses and tangential variations and whatnot]. The Placebo Effect is very real and almost omnipotently powerful. If your mind can convince your brain that you have an allergy to something, then your brain will dutifully produce the allergic effect in order to satisfy your mind's desire for it. [The psychologically oriented MD can then try a few tricks to fool your Placebo Effect response, but he needs to be very crafty and cunning and calculating about it.]

3) The folks at the Mayo Clinic have been working on this stuff:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753986

For applied medicine, I don't know whether the Mayo Clinic has any equal in the entire world.

TrentAustin · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:10 am Post subject:

Feel free to email us and chat about this. I developed a very nasty allergic condition to both silver and gold... I did a longer post about this years ago and you can most probably find that info with the TH search button above... Years before I started my shop and own line of pieces I had Dr. Dave at Wedge make some fabulous Stainless pieces for me. I owe so much to Dave and him basically enlightening me on the issues/sensitivity/treatment. Now that I make pieces I play zirconium coated metal pieces or pieces with acrylic rims.

Even when I test silver or gold pieces these days my chops still burn something fierce. I used to think it was just the norm for things to sting and burn like this but I have since realized that's not the case at all!

YMMV,
T
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mm55 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1412

I wouldn't ask my doctor to advise me on the subject of triple-tonguing, or how best to work through the Irons etudes. I'm always a bit surprised when someone asks for medical advice on a trumpet forum. The advice is free, but nonetheless, much of it may be overpriced.

An allergy is one of a specific group of hypersensitivities. Many sensitivities are not allergic in nature. A qualified medical professional can likely give you better advice concerning allergies and other sensitivities than a superb trumpet player with no medical experience.

scottfsmith · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject:

One cheap and fast way to test is to paint a thin coat of nail polish on the rim and see if that improves things. Its easy to chip it off with thumbnail so no permanent effects. So many colors to choose from as well

I was playing on raw brass at one point and did this since I heard reaction to brass was very common. Long-term I don't think you want to play on the polish, I found it too sticky, but its a good short-term way to see if you are having a reaction.

Tarh331_Dad · Veteran Member Joined: 30 May 2013 Posts: 185

TrentAustin · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject:

I have worked with an allergist as well. So I know my issues are real (and my playing a placebo).
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ken_k · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject:

My symptoms are exactly as you describe and I am fine with gold plate. I also play woodwinds and my flute has a gold lip plate. I'm fine to try a silver mouthpiece for 10 - 15 minutes. Problems begin after that.
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info@thetaplate.com · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:48 pm Post subject:

People with sensitivity to silver do well with gold. Some move to rhodium plated mouthpieces. Theta has done a few rhodium over gold for the extremely sensitive players.
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StartingUpAgainAt53 · Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:49 am Post subject:

Googled mouthpiece metal allergy and found this post. As a history - I played all through high school on silver mpcs. Didn't play much if at all for 36 yrs. Started back up again around 15 months ago playing daily. At first I was on my old silver MPC but switched to a gold one because of the particular back-bore, throat- a MPC inherited from my father. Been playing that for almost a year now.

In the past week my lips have been had a burning sensation and feel tired or rubbery all day long. At first I thought it was because I overplayed 9 days ago. Been taking it easy as of Wednesday last week- not playing hard or long. Really taking the time to warm up slowly although I have been warming up slowly all along.

Yesterday I had a lesson and band rehearsal and my lips are again burning today. My lips felt rubbery and weak after my lesson and did not play well during the rehearsal.

I am now thinking I may have developed an allergy to Gold?

Do the symptoms I describe seem like what any of you have experienced or heard from others?

I don't have a rash on my lips and they are not swollen beyond normal.

Thanks for your help in advanced. I apologize for the long message.

Best Regards,
Marc

Kumara999 · Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:15 am Post subject: Mouthpiece Allergy

Hi Marc - did you ever get to the bottom of your issue? I too am experiencing something similar - burning feeling on lips and tip of tounge - amplified by the fact that I tried a modified reeves BB that had some raw brass showing at bottom of cup that seemed to have triggered a larger reaction.

I have ordered a few acrylic mouthpieces from ACB as well as a giddings stainless steel to see if that helps.

Taking much longer than I would have expected to get over the symptoms. Now into 1 week.

Someone also told me to watch out for a toothpaste change - which I also recently did - as a lot of toothpastes have massive irritants in then - specifically something called Sodium Lauryl Sulphate (SLS) - so to be safe I also changed my toothpaste to one that does not contain SLS.

Heather

JayKosta · Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece Allergy

JVL · Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:04 am Post subject:

hello
on one side, metal allergies can be caused by bacterian infections; on the other side, a candidosis can appear in presence of heavy metal intoxication.
best

Kumara999 · Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:22 am Post subject:

Hi JVL - not to appear stupid - but what to you mean by this comment "a candidosis can appear in presence of heavy metal intoxication".

Thanks

adagiotrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 903

Giddings makes a whole line of mouthpieces in stainless steel and titanium. I play one their stainless mouthpieces, not because of any allergy but because they happen to play very well for me and I really like the feel of stainless over silver and even gold plating.