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oliver king
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 Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: Bach MLV V Stomvi VR |
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| Can anyone offer a comparison of these two horns? Are there other 'step bore' trumpets that should be in the conversation? Thanks!! |
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feedback@stomvi-usa
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Location: Newhall California
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George Coble
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have not played any Stomvi products.
The V Bach Vindabona model trumpet initially appeared in the late 1950s/early 1960s and was described by Vincent Bach, in the Mt Vernon catalog, as a "teutonic" sounding trumpet. The implication was that the Vindabona trumpets had the broad sound characteristic of the rotary trumpets made in Europe at the time. V Bach made Bb and C models of this genre of trumpets, as well as a D trumpet bell that was loosely known by some people as the Vindabona bell (#243). The common thread was the use of a standard #43 leadpipe, a "telescoping" (conical) tuning slide, and a ML bore valve section. The Bb trumpets had a variety of bells that included the #72 bell, #65 bell, and (seen rarely) a #43 bell. The C trumpet was expected to have a #238 bell. The "telescoping" tuning slide for both keyed trumpets was unique in that the top male part of the slide was a thinned .453 bore tube connected to a conically "D" shaped bent tube. The bottom male tube was a normal .459 bore that matched the valve bore. This tuning slide could not be inserted inverted because the top female receiver was undersized. Typically during the Mt Vernon time frame, one could expect a kind of engraved Bach craftsman stamped on the bell near the third valve or near the bell wire. I have been told that V Bach built these Vindabona models with gold brass bells but I have only seen one Bb model with a gold brass #65 bell and have never seen a C Vindabona with this option. Likewise, I have only seen Vindabona model V Bach trumpets with a lacquer finish although there must be some of these rare trumpets in factory silver-plate. The above writer of this thread implied something about a "step bore" with the Bach Vindabona but this is not the case on this model trumpet. Today, I understand that V Bach still makes the Bb version but has discontinued the C version. Still, if one wants a C Vindabona trumpet I imagine asking V Bach for one wouldn't hurt. (I have played on three Mt Vernon V Bach Vindabona C trumpets and all three were remarkable).
George Coble |
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lmaraya
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 618
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I have been playing the VR II (Big Bell, lightweight)and love it. It feels to me like a much improved version of the Yamaha Shew model, especially with the intonation |
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rockford
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Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 2477
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| George Coble wrote: | I have not played any Stomvi products.
The V Bach Vindabona model trumpet initially appeared in the late 1950s/early 1960s and was described by Vincent Bach, in the Mt Vernon catalog, as a "teutonic" sounding trumpet. The implication was that the Vindabona trumpets had the broad sound characteristic of the rotary trumpets made in Europe at the time. V Bach made Bb and C models of this genre of trumpets, as well as a D trumpet bell that was loosely known by some people as the Vindabona bell (#243). The common thread was the use of a standard #43 leadpipe, a "telescoping" (conical) tuning slide, and a ML bore valve section. The Bb trumpets had a variety of bells that included the #72 bell, #65 bell, and (seen rarely) a #43 bell. The C trumpet was expected to have a #238 bell. The "telescoping" tuning slide for both keyed trumpets was unique in that the top male part of the slide was a thinned .453 bore tube connected to a conically "D" shaped bent tube. The bottom male tube was a normal .459 bore that matched the valve bore. This tuning slide could not be inserted inverted because the top female receiver was undersized. Typically during the Mt Vernon time frame, one could expect a kind of engraved Bach craftsman stamped on the bell near the third valve or near the bell wire. I have been told that V Bach built these Vindabona models with gold brass bells but I have only seen one Bb model with a gold brass #65 bell and have never seen a C Vindabona with this option. Likewise, I have only seen Vindabona model V Bach trumpets with a lacquer finish although there must be some of these rare trumpets in factory silver-plate. The above writer of this thread implied something about a "step bore" with the Bach Vindabona but this is not the case on this model trumpet. Today, I understand that V Bach still makes the Bb version but has discontinued the C version. Still, if one wants a C Vindabona trumpet I imagine asking V Bach for one wouldn't hurt. (I have played on three Mt Vernon V Bach Vindabona C trumpets and all three were remarkable).
George Coble |
Good stuff. Just wanted to make a small correction and add some details. The D Vindobona bell is a 244 and Bach made less than 20 of them. The bell is the only feature that differs from the standard D trumpet and has a .448 bore throughout. Bach only made about 120 Vindobona Bb's and less than 25 C's so they're pretty hard to come by. Selmer made a lot more after they moved production to Elkhart. The Bb's and C slides are .444 on the top, .448 in the bow and .453 on the lower leg going into a ML valve body. Bach uses the term "telescoping" to describe this slide. Bach's current version has these same dimensions. The 65 bell was essentially replaced by the 72 and only a few 65's were custom made to order after that. We should have a completed article on Bach's Vindobona trumpets out soon at www.vincentbachsworld.com
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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oliver king
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Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1742
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Thanks much for all of the insight. I've been playing pretty free blowing 'larger' horns (.462 & .464). I'm looking for a little more
resistance up front. |
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Bucaneer61
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I own a late 1992 Vindabona with a 72G bell. According to Tedd Waggoner of the Bach factory, my Vindabona is 453 on the top slide and 459 on the bottom, with a 43 pipe. Plays wonderfully and is a very versatile harm. It's also in silver plate from the factory, so there is at least one done that way.
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Selmer Radial Bb ML - Jan., 1972
Selmer Radial C XL - Jan., 1972
Getzen 580S cornet - c. 1973
Blessing Artist Flugelhorn, rose brass bell
Accent Picc by B & S
Conn 28B Concert Grand Bb - 1925
Martin Handcraft Imperial - 1937 |
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have been playing the VR II (Big Bell, lightweight)and love it. It feels to me like a much improved version of the Yamaha Shew model, especially with the intonation |
It's the most common comment I hear about the V-Raptor trumpet.
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
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zackh411
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Joined: 17 May 2011
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Location: Saint Louis MO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ljazztrm wrote: | | Quote: | | I have been playing the VR II (Big Bell, lightweight)and love it. It feels to me like a much improved version of the Yamaha Shew model, especially with the intonation |
It's the most common comment I hear about the V-Raptor trumpet. |
I'll second that. The Shew still feels more efficient to me. Easier. The Raptor is more forgiving though. The Shew kind of shuts you down if you play it wrong. The Raptor is at its best when played efficiently, but it doesn't force you to do so.
I perform on my Raptor but split my practice between my Raptor and my Conn 36b (a very tight horn) because, similar to the Shew, it shuts down on me when played incorrectly.
I sold my Shew because I just sound better on the Raptor.
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Lead Piece: Custom PickettBrass
Jazz Piece: Custom Curry TC
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rockford
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Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Bucaneer61 wrote: | | I own a late 1992 Vindabona with a 72G bell. According to Tedd Waggoner of the Bach factory, my Vindabona is 453 on the top slide and 459 on the bottom, with a 43 pipe. Plays wonderfully and is a very versatile harm. It's also in silver plate from the factory, so there is at least one done that way. |
The current version uses the .444-.448-.453 tuning slide just like the ones Bach made in Mt. Vernon. That doesn't mean they were all made that way over the past 60 years or so though. If you're inclined, how about taking a set of calipers to your slide and see what it says. It'll help with our research.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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KSaufley
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Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Bucaneer61 wrote: | | I own a late 1992 Vindabona with a 72G bell. According to Tedd Waggoner of the Bach factory, my Vindabona is 453 on the top slide and 459 on the bottom, with a 43 pipe. Plays wonderfully and is a very versatile harm. It's also in silver plate from the factory, so there is at least one done that way. |
Greetings,
I have been looking for a MLV 72, but to find a MLV 72G is even better!
What are your thoughts on the way it plays compared to a standard 37?
_________________
1973 Bach 37, Melk MTV-525
Bach corp. 1 1/2C 7
1978 custom Bach 239, Malone MC-1
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John 3:16
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ewetho
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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How would you characterize the blow on a Vindabona versus say a 1001 or Bach 37 etc.... Is it all that tight or does the expanding more feel more free than you might expect?
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razeontherock
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Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Bucaneer61 wrote: | | I own a late 1992 Vindabona with a 72G bell. According to Tedd Waggoner of the Bach factory, my Vindabona is 453 on the top slide and 459 on the bottom, with a 43 pipe. Plays wonderfully and is a very versatile harm. It's also in silver plate from the factory, so there is at least one done that way. |
I'm not sure I'd tell prospective employers what harm your horn can do 
The standard 43 pipe ends at .453" or less, really?!? |
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razeontherock
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| zackh411 wrote: |
I perform on my Raptor but split my practice between my Raptor and my Conn 36b |
Zack, you got one!! Is it as great a specimen as your Committee is of that model?
How've you been, man?
Ray |
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razeontherock
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ewetho wrote: | | How would you characterize the blow on a Vindabona versus say a 1001 or Bach 37 etc.... Is it all that tight or does the expanding more feel more free than you might expect? |
Vindabona ROCKS! I say that as one who always hated how a 37 plays, though. |
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Bucaneer61
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Razeontherock -- While my Vindabona can do quite a bit of HARM, mostly to my ego and endurance, it is my love of spell correct that does the greatest harm. My HORN is a very nice horn, very versatile. I have used it in small group, quintet and community band, all with no problems in blending, etc. I don't have access to calipers, and am relying on Mr. Waggoner's word about the diameters of the pipes. It does seem to be a bit more free that I remember my old 37 bell horn. My main horn these days is a Selmer Radial from 1970.
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Selmer Radial Bb ML - Jan., 1972
Selmer Radial C XL - Jan., 1972
Getzen 580S cornet - c. 1973
Blessing Artist Flugelhorn, rose brass bell
Accent Picc by B & S
Conn 28B Concert Grand Bb - 1925
Martin Handcraft Imperial - 1937 |
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