• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Puffed cheeks, help!



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AndrewS
Veteran Member


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 122
Location: Richmond Hill

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:41 pm    Post subject: Puffed cheeks, help! Reply with quote

As my cheeks age with me they tend to puff more than before.
Also they start to hurt at times.
I wonder if there are techniques to hold them back.
Now I am at the point of not being able not to puff anymore.

Thank you,
Andrew
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
derekthor
Veteran Member


Joined: 01 Oct 2012
Posts: 425
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try practicing while watching yourself in the mirror. Sometimes, actually seeing what you're physically doing and catching and stopping yourself is enough to break a habit, much like recording yourself and listening back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaferis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1529
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Puffing happens when you release/relax the muscles that hold the cheeks in place.. the mirror is a good suggestion, holding/touching the cheeks while playing will also help you identify (feel) the area that you need to support.

A definite need to break this habit - facial structural damage will continue to occur = more pain! It won't just go away, you must correct it.

As you're practicing, start easy, maintain unpuffed position, and stop immediately when your cheeks puff out. It is a habit. One that you must break.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AndrewS
Veteran Member


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 122
Location: Richmond Hill

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, guys!
Actually for the last couple of days I've been practicing in front of the mirror watching my cheeks.
Now, backed with you suggestions I'll continue to do so since I already see some improvement! One of those cases when just watching the system you can affect it.
So far, when trying to hold the cheeks I feel some unnecessary embouchure tension, but I hope it'll go away once those new cheek muscles learn how to activate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 2974
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the BE perspective, a cheek puff is neither good nor evil. It is a tool that can be used in moderation, like any other.

In regular playing, you can normally barely see a puff in the BE players who use one. Of course, some players may puff a more noticeable amount and still play well, but they are in the minority.

The goal is balance. If you are overdoing the puff and using it as some kind of crutch, then it will likely be difficult to sustain.

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
RussellDDixon
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 577
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch some videos of Scott Wendholt playing.
_________________
Schilke X3 Trumpet
Bach Stradivarius NY 7 Trumpet
Yamaha YTR 8340EM Trumpet
Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Patrick 12C mouthpiece
Lynn Nicholson Monette Prana mouthpiece
http://www.TrumpetPerformanceTips.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AndrewS
Veteran Member


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 122
Location: Richmond Hill

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Jeff, that's what happened to me.
I was overdoing puffing so overtime I was looking more and more like Dizzy.
I know that James Morrison and Arturo (and many more prominent players) puff their cheeks, but it doesn't look grotesque and it works.
In my case I let it run wild for too long, time to trim it down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
AndrewS
Veteran Member


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 122
Location: Richmond Hill

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Watch some videos of Scott Wendholt playing


His cheeks look very tame compared to mine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bert
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 715

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a bit ambivalent. Being a BE teacher and player for over ten years, I know what good a puff can do. I have a slight puff above high G myself. With my students I rarely say anything about it, but sometimes I see a Dizzy-like puff wih beginners, and I cannot let it go completely. If a student can play a second line G without a puff, that is fine. When a student can only play it with a puff, I usually let it go, but I always ask if he or she can do it without the puff. If so, I steer towards the 'non puff', if not, I let go. I have one student with a Dizzy-style puff who has easy access to the higher register (a 10-year old, two years on the trumpet, and can play G top staff without too much trouble, but with a noticable air pocket in both cheeks). Without the puff, tone suffers and range is limited to a very stuffy C. Maybe he looses the puff later on, maybe not.
I even advised some of my students to use an air pocket to improve. All of the people that I advised to do so, don't have it anymore, but it triggered a better lip position.

FWIW.
_________________
http://cdbaby.com/cd/triobertlochs
http://cdbaby.com/cd/lbh
http://bertlochs.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AndrewS
Veteran Member


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 122
Location: Richmond Hill

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am a bit ambivalent.

Thank you, Bert, for your comment.
I think think the key here is whether it hurts or not.
When it does, the ambivalence goes away.
I am just guessing that for a younger student having cheeks the Dizzy-style wouldn't add any uncomfortable strain or tissue damage.
For an older student (say after 40) it could be a different story.
It it helps with the tone/register and doesn't add any issues it's probably ok to blow like that.
If it starts to hurt, you need to think how to reduce it, there is no other way around it since it causes permanent tissue damage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dan O'Donnell
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 2287

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard that puffing your cheeks out helps to produce a very calm and mellow tone quality and some pros do this when wanting a note(s) to have that sound during a performance.

I watched videos of Chuck Mangione and it seemed like he did it when playing in the mid to lower register when the piece called for that type of sound such as holding a smooth long note.

Has anyone heard this before or know anything regarding this?
_________________
God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AndrewS
Veteran Member


Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 122
Location: Richmond Hill

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've heard that puffing your cheeks out helps to produce a very calm and mellow tone quality and some pros do this when wanting a note(s) to have that sound during a performance.

I watched videos of Chuck Mangione and it seemed like he did it when playing in the mid to lower register when the piece called for that type of sound such as holding a smooth long note.

Has anyone heard this before or know anything regarding this?


I guess it depends on the individual as we all achieve different sound effects using whatever works.
As for me, since I started not to puff my cheeks my tone became less mellow, but it will change once the lips get used to a new position and the tone will become mellow again.
Trumpeters also blow cheeks for different reasons like circular breathing, but that in itself doesn't change their tone much since they can control it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bert
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 715

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My tone doesn't change if I blow my cheeks or not. Not much difference anyway. Blowing cheeks in the low register looks relaxed, maybe that is why people do it, because it looks relaxed and because it feels relaxed. I don't think it has to sound as relaxed as it does, though.
I can do circular breathing from the time I do BE, because of the puff.
_________________
http://cdbaby.com/cd/triobertlochs
http://cdbaby.com/cd/lbh
http://bertlochs.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 2974
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Watch some videos of Scott Wendholt playing.


Hey Russel, a belated thanks for the recommendation! I only now checked it out. He definitely is an an example of a player creatively using some degree of puff.

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group