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Bach early Elkhart serial numbers



 
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jakenitz10
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Joined: 09 May 2016
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Bach early Elkhart serial numbers Reply with quote

Hi I am in the market for s Bach 37 from the early Elkhart stage. I used to know the serial number cutoff a and such but I have forgotten. Can anyone tell me what is the cut off number for being considered "early Elkhart" (pre strike).

Also please contact me if you have one for sale in good condition!

Thanks!
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rockford
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The person who coined the phrase "Early Elkhart" originally meant it to refer to the time before Selmer increased the thickness of the bell to what is now standard today. Generally they are similar to the Selmer Mt. Vernon's from 1961-64. I'll have to look around to see if we have that number somewhere. After 86k. Over the years it's been used to describe instruments prior to 50k when the serial numbers were dropped from the internal valve stems or prior to 100k just because it's 5 digit number. No firm definition though.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach Bb, C and D trumpets and cornets. Bach Artisan C, Bach C cornet, Schilke G, Yamaha Eb and piccolo A/Bb, flugelhorn, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190
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danny45635
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The earliest ones are in the 30K range. Though I'm not sure what "early elkhart" serial numbers go up to, but anything in the 30K range definitely is. I have a early Elkhart Bach 37 and I love it. I literally played one note, and the way it sounded it me was phenomenal, so I sold my old Bach 37 and my old student horn, and got it. I would recommend going to a store like Dillon's music (if you are in a reasonable distance), and try out some horns there. They have NY Bachs all the way up to new Bachs. I'm not sure how many early elkharts they have. I'm sure you could find that out in their website. Also, the early elkharts tend to go for more than most used horns. Mine went for $2000 despite its terrible cosmetic condition. It's perfect mechanically though. In perfect condition, they may go for much more.

Good luck on finding a horn,
Danny
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mercer
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there is an actual "cut off" date, because "early Elkhart" isn't defined. Ask ten people, and you'll probably get ten different answers. Purists will probably say 30,000-50,000 (1965-1969), but others say up to 174,999 (1979). If you believe eager sellers, it could mean anything that they're trying to sell you. (In fact, somebody recently called their 1978 horn "practically Mount Vernon.")
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GarryOwen2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the best indicators is whether or not the bell has Corporation stamped on it. If it does (at least for 37s), most would consider it an Early Elkhart. I think for 37s they stopped doing this around 1974 or 75. Of course the earliest Elkharts (1965-1968ish)) we're often made with Mt. Vernon parts that were definitely used up by 1970. I have two early 1970s 37s that have the Corporation bell, and they are considerably lighter than my new 37. They also have a much darker sound, believe it or not, and play so differently I don't consider the old ones the same model as the new one. All of them are amazing in their own way, though - just different.
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leahcim
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I owned a 30,4XX horn and I would for sure consider that Early Elkhart. It had the Mt Vernon reversed third slide stop, pinky ring, side seam construction, etc.

I personally believe the 65-69 horns can be considered early. Anything after that is a regular Elkhart. Some of those horns are really great trumpets.
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ML52K
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Bach is very early 1970.

What is the bell thickness difference separating "early" vs "later?"
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rockford
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ML52K wrote:
My Bach is very early 1970.

What is the bell thickness difference separating "early" vs "later?"
The latest standard Mt. Vernon bell thickness was .020" which is considered lightweight today. Back then lightweight referred to only the tubing and not the bell. I don't have today's standard thickness number off hand. .023" comes to mind but can't say for sure. There are also other differences that took place over the years as Bach production evolved. This video outlines a few of them. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I0VphF-NnpM
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach Bb, C and D trumpets and cornets. Bach Artisan C, Bach C cornet, Schilke G, Yamaha Eb and piccolo A/Bb, flugelhorn, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190
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trumpetgeekIII
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early Elkhart is the sound to die for...
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