• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Buzzing the Mouthpiece



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
settrumpet
New Member


Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been practicing BE for almost 6 months. Buzzing the mouthpiece with the lips in the roll in position seems to be almost impossible. The tone cuts off and my lips can't seem to find a "balanced" spot. Also, certain notes are easier than others. Has anyone had similar experiences and how did you overcome them? (not that the goal is to be a great mouthpiece buzzer, but it would probably help the rest of my playing) Thoughts, comments?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
marktrumpet
Veteran Member


Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 325
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there some advantage to be gained from being able to buzz the mouthpiece in the rolled in position? The resistance changes considerably when you just buzz the mouthpiece. Maybe we can wait for the experts to reply.
I met many people who could buzz the mouthpiece but couldn't play the trumpet very well. I have met a lot of mouthpiece buzzers that had extreme endurance problems, some of them were college professors. I am not sure if it was because of the mouthpiece buzzing or the huge mouthpieces they were trying to play. Well best of luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HJ
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I was a pretty dedicated mpc buzzer for a decade, and it did not make me a good player. It was just something to hold on to, because I did not have a clue. If it is worth something it is that if you are away from the horn for a couple of days you can keep in touch with the mpc. At least that is what I did until I discovered BE.

Last year I had a short holiday with my family and could not play for three days. I took my mpc with me and started to do the roll-in and outs on it. It did not work at all, just like you describe. So I left it at that and I never buzzed my mpc again. After my summer holiday (I did not touch the horn for three whole weeks) I could still play to an easy high C and I played some high G's as well. Of course not for a long time, but everything was there. What I did was doing the lip clamp three times a day and some isometrics by Jeanne Pocius (they are in another thread, written by OJ I think, otherwise visit OJ's page, you should do this anyway).

Just leave this mpc buzzing. You don't need it anymore.

Bert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Larrios
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 794
Location: Serooskerke (Walcheren), The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is funny. I always seem to have different experiences than many of you guys. I like that in the forum, that I can read other experiences on the same material. At first I didn't intend to reply to this thread, as there are some good comments from Bruce Lee and Ole on mouthpiecebuzzing on another thread. However, when I read Bert's message, I changed my mind, so here I am.

<<<Last year I had a short holiday with my family and could not play for three days. I took my mpc with me and started to do the roll-in and outs on it. It did not work at all, just like you describe.>>>

I have no succes at all with mouthpiecebuzzing in the normal playing range. That's also covered in another thread. However, I find it very easy to start on high C on the roll in position and shift to double pedal C and backwards on the mouthpiece. (As in roll in #4.) Something I am not yet able to do on the horn. I guess I am just weird.

I agree with Bert's last comment. You don't need mouthpiecebuzzing anymore. It's part of the bag of tricks. It's best to stay out of that bag unless you have no other option.

Ko
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jacko
New Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 10
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Maybe as Bert suggests you don't need to mpc buzz anymore.

I have a friend who took some lessons with one of the top Euphonium players here in the UK. He suggests a tuned piece of garden hose. I guess something narrower for a trumpet would be suitable.

It can generally be found lying on the back seat of his car, and has been known to travel in a suitcase. I don't know how he'd explain it if he got arrested!!!

The additional tube helps to provide the resistance necessary, so you may find it usable for BE. As a newcomer to BE, I can't verify this myself, but it sounds reasonable.

If you decide to try it, the results would be interesting.....but don't get arrested.


Jacko
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bruce Lee
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 759
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Settrumpet,

Nice to see you here! Since you're new to the TH forum, I'll bring part of my previous post in here, to see if it is helpful for you.

"I think that "free-buzzing" tends to cause us to manipulate the facial muscles into an non-BE type embouchure. Also, it is my feeling that mouthpiece buzzing is not as efficient, for similar reasons... inefficiency. When we use only the mouthpiece, we tend to move it into an embouchure position that may be entirely different from what we use when our trumpet is up to our chops.

A little "horse-flapping", and a few short buzzes on the mouthpiece probably won't hurt, however something like the "Adam leadpipe exercises" will be much more conducive to producing good results for warm-ups."

The "hose" is an okay idea, but it probably works a whole lot better for the euphonium. Because of the larger mpc. used on the euphonium, there isn't as much "manipulation room" as there is with the trumpet mpc. I would recommend finding an old leadpipe, or even a rigid piece of pvc pipe... something with some stability, that would allow you to put the mpc. in the same position as your normal playing position. A music repair shop should have a leadpipe laying around. Taking one off a "parts" horn wouldn't be a problem.

Hope this helps! See ya around, Settrumpet!

Best always,
Bruce
_________________
teatro333@gmail.com
Please contact me for BE Lessons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HJ
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ko, you got me there. I can do a high C on the mpc (rolled in) and I can do a double pedal C also. I did it on this holiday and decided that that was not worth anything. So we agree, but you are right and not totally weird...

I have a lot of different things to be added to the mpc and to be able to practice in a tent in the Sahara desert, all kinds of hoses (I took one on a holiday to Turkey, it had the exacty length of a trumpet, so I figured it would help, but the only thing that happened was that the snakes came out of their baskets. I was thinking of a career move, but Turkey was too hot for me), maybe you people know the BERP, but also this little gadget does not add much to the uselessnes of mpc buzzing.
Well, I need to be honest: there was a time that my tongue was completely frozen in my mouth. I did not know how to get it forward and one teacher made me buzz my mpc for that reason and it worked. He never told me, though to tongue on my lips, which would have been much more efficient.
One thing I liked a lot when I buzzed the mpc was the glissando part. Allen Vizzutti advocates this as a warm-up, and I have some students from before my BE teachings that still do this and feel comfortable with it.
That's good for them then.


Bert



[ This Message was edited by: HJ on 2004-01-12 09:16 ]

[ This Message was edited by: HJ on 2004-01-12 09:17 ]

[ This Message was edited by: HJ on 2004-01-12 09:18 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mcamilleri
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2076
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lips require acoustic feedback from the horn to buzz. Buzzing the mouthpiece alones removes this feedback, so it feels very different. It can go one of two ways:

1) The player has trouble 'buzzing' rolled-in on the horn, but the mouthpiece buzz helps initiate the buzz.

2) The player has no trouble 'buzzing' rolled-in on the horn, and buzzing the mouthpiece feels more difficult.

Same things apply to free-lip buzzing.

At best, mouthpiece buzzing might get someone started buzzing rolled in, and then they could transfer this to the horn. It probably should not be done for more than a few days until they can buzz on the horn - if they can't transfer to horn quickly, something is wrong, and more mouthpiece buzzing is unlikely to fix it.

Again, it is a bag of tricks thing. Roll-in #1 starts with a 'free squeak' or 'free air hiss', then play the horn. Mouthpiece buzzing is, I believe, just an unnecessary intermediate stage.

Michael
_________________
Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetjunkie
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 622

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try adding some resistence by cupping your hands over the mouthpeice... while still not as easy as with a horn, it really helps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
flugle-me-elmo
Veteran Member


Joined: 08 Sep 2002
Posts: 169
Location: Memphis, TN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my two cents, but I find mouthpiece buzzing to be more of an ear thing for me. I use a BERP for resistence, and it lets me see how much control my lips have over the pitch rather than relying on the horn to slot the pitches. If I can hear a pitch in my head (or on piano) and then buzz it right off without the slotting advantage on the horn, then when my mouthpiece is on the horn and the right valve combo is down and my lips buzz that same pitch, I won't frack my note (as often) and pitch center is usually improved. That's what I use mouthpiece buzzing for.

--Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group