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S vs. Schilke Eb Pipes



 
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:23 am    Post subject: S vs. Schilke Eb Pipes Reply with quote

I'm thinking of having my old Bach 189 XL Eb converted to either one of the Malone-style S pipes, or the more Schilke-style (like E3L) full length pipes with tuning bell.

However, while I've found lots of opinions about the Schilke style pipes, and many people raving about the recent Yamaha (and a few about the Kanstul 923), I haven't found much in the way of description about the characteristics of the S pipe, and how it differs from the other designs.

Can anyone who has compared them offer some comments? Thanks!
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ExtraLargeBore
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main difference is that the S shaped lead pipe horns don't have a tunable bell and the Schilke style pipe does. That makes a huge difference, more than the actual lead pipe style does. The tuning bell is so popular with an Eb because it loosens everything up and allows a lot of flexibility of pitch and sound, while sacrificing projection at loud dynamics.

The S style pipe horns have a braced bell which limits flexibility a little, but the sound is more C like. The longer lead pipe gives better intonation (if compared to the shorter pipe in a braced bell setup) to compensate for the lack of a tuning bell.

That's all my opinion of playing lots of each style. It really depends on what you're going to use it for, solo/chamber or orchestra. If I was going to convert a Bach 189, I would go with the S style pipe. Or have Melk convert it to a tunable bell, but the XL bore combined with a tunable bell will probably be too open.
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Bb - Bach 37 #0XXX
C - Bach NY 229 25H #1
Eb/D - Schilke E8L #90210
Piccolo - Schilke P51 (custom 1 valve)
MPS - Bach - 1X 19 throat 117 backbore
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jvand678
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve,

I've mounted a 9636 pipe and slide on an XL 229 that turned out WAY better than it used to be. I've also played tuning bell Eb conversions by both Charlie Melk and Blackburn.

The S pipe route completely transformed the response, evenness/pitch of scale, and in my opinion the sound, compared with its stock form. This horn belongs to my university so the money had already been spent to purchase it before I got here. I used all the original pipe to leadpipe braces and made the long z brace that attaches the 3rd valve cluster to the bell. I did not change the slide going into the 3rd valve.

Generalizations are along what's already been mentioned. The S pipe is much more focused, slightly better intonation on D, Eb, and E with normal fingerings (probably varies horn to horn), and sounds more like a large horn. If there were just a touch more bell tail on the s pipe type (think Osmun's E3L bell) for the scale to come together, I think they'd really be on to something great.

A couple of things worthy of mentioning: The s pipe conversion is a good bit less money and much easier to convert back if you don't like it.

Good luck!
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it's not the Malone pipe, the Kanstul S-pipe is a bent 25H style one. And that particular horn has a 229 bell on it as well. the LACK of the huge z style brace to the bell means it gets a little more resonant, while still having a lot more heft and weight behind the sound. Great for orchestral use, and is a very very tidy little trumpet to play at times. Seems to just lock in place...

cheers

ANdy
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone - this is great!
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvand678 wrote:
Hi Steve,

I've mounted a 9636 pipe and slide on an XL 229 that turned out WAY better than it used to be.


Out of curiosity - how did you get the 9636 pipe? Does Yamaha sell them?
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of all these horns, which are ALL amazingly high quality, there must be something for everyone. Apart from one horn I neglected to mention, which is Thein's copy of an E3L. I only had a brief chance to play it, but it subtly different: a bigger bell, yet similar feel. Years after Schilke, this one felt just the ale and I had a huge nostalgic feel. The one difference was. More stable sound and it was SO in tune with itself.

Commenting to Heinrich on how great the pitch was he relied, 'of course. We never sentd out an instrument whicYs out of tune. That should be a crime'

http://thein-blechblasinstrumente.de/index.php

Cheers

Andy
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jvand678
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve A wrote:
jvand678 wrote:
Hi Steve,

I've mounted a 9636 pipe and slide on an XL 229 that turned out WAY better than it used to be.


Out of curiosity - how did you get the 9636 pipe? Does Yamaha sell them?


Sorry for the late reply... I didn't get an email on that one.

Yes. Yamaha will sell the pipe. You can check Yamaha 24x7 or you can have a local tech donut for you. We usually get a better price and it might help make up some of the install cost.
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Steve A
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Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvand678 wrote:
Steve A wrote:
jvand678 wrote:
Hi Steve,

I've mounted a 9636 pipe and slide on an XL 229 that turned out WAY better than it used to be.


Out of curiosity - how did you get the 9636 pipe? Does Yamaha sell them?


Sorry for the late reply... I didn't get an email on that one.

Yes. Yamaha will sell the pipe. You can check Yamaha 24x7 or you can have a local tech donut for you. We usually get a better price and it might help make up some of the install cost.


Great - thanks!
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Jabroni
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Joined: 25 May 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:17 am    Post subject: Eflat Leadpipes Reply with quote

I have owned/played over a dozen Eflat trumpets. This much I can tell you, when mounting/converting a trumpet is rolling the dice. There are many issues that may still occur on a horn even after putting a different or after market leadpipe on the instrument. Intonation issues, feel, ease of playing and sound are issues I have encountered with many of these projects. I know there are some great conversions out there, however many of the newer eflat trumpets are built with tolerance/measurement considerations, which give the best results. I now play the Yamaha 9636 Eflat/D trumpet which has eliminated the issues I had mentioned.
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