a few questions

trumpetplayer87 · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:52 am Post subject:

Is it ok if my jaw goes forward slightly when doing the lip clamp?

Should my corners be TOTALLY relaxed, or is it permissible to have them pulled out/back slightly? Should my corners be pulling in any direction at all?

I can't imagine that I would have overlooked this in the book, but if you happen to know that it is in the book feel free to have me just read the section over again instead of taking the time to say it over again on this forum.

Bonnie

LeeC · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 5730

Am the last person to try and speak for the good BE book, but your question is of interest to me Bonnie. First, apologies in advance if my comments stray from the Balanced Embouchure method.

As a person who plays with a roll in and a more forward jaw position (on one of my two embouchures) I have certainly noticed a tendency to want to pull the lip corners back a tad prior to embouchure contact with the mouthpiece. In my case (and I speak only for moi) excessive lip tissue inside the mouthpiece gets in the way of tone production. So I pull my corners back a combined distance of about 1/4 inch. Works well for me.

What i just said above is often berated by other trumpet methods.

Contrast that to my other embouchure which is a significantly receded jaw formula. On this one I favor the more puckered setting.

Questions, Bonnie:

Do you get any improvement in register with a dry lip setting?

What size mouthpiece do you play?

Thank you, Lee

[ This Message was edited by: leesbrass on 2004-01-20 15:33 ]

trumpetjunkie · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 622

Bonnie,

When I do the roll-in, at first my jaw felt like to was waay out there... after awhile I got used to it. Don't try to hold it back as you'll be limiting your roll in and not get the "full affect"

trumpetplayer87 · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject:

With the BE method I haven't gotten much of a sound out yet. However, with my regular embouchure I play dry. Usually I use a ton of pressure (probably bad) and my mpc seems to slip off my lips on the high notes.

My mpc is a bach 3C.

My jaw was aching this morning after trying to get the right lip position. I think I got it for a second, but then my corners were pushed back too far and when I put them back the sound disapeared. If I really can't get this after a few more weeks I think I'm going to email Bruce Lee (I think you're the one who just replied in fact!) and set up a lesson. Anyhow I think the if my jaw is aching I'm doing something wrong. Perhaps not, but it's just my first instinct.

Bonnie
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Jerry Freedman · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:27 pm Post subject:

Jerry Freedman · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:28 pm Post subject:

If your jaw is aching I would re-evaluate. I have heard nasty stories about TMJ and trumpet players

lsutpt2001 · New Member Joined: 19 Jan 2004 Posts: 1

My jaw used to ache too, especially when I would use the lip clamp. I experimented with how to keep the lip clamp going while I receding the jaw to a more comfortable position.

BE is a very universal and personal system, all the concepts work extremely well but we have to be the one to figure out how it works for us!

Good luck!

LeeC · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 5730

Bonnie, let me speculate a bit here. I'll bet that you play with a lot more lower lip than upper and that it is your upper lip that falls off up high. Correct?

One thing that has worked for me is to not over exagerate either the roll in or the roll out. Hard to explain, but it appears to me that just learning to use the muscles involved in both procedures helps range and power.

These days I catch myself playing with my lips almost in their normal setting. All that I'm doing in ascending or decsending is to manipulate those muscles that I learned from both the roll in and roll out. So you could almost say that I now no longer either roll in or roll out. The embouchure acts almost instictively to adjust the proper setting without generating unecessary resistance or exagerated movement.

trumpetjunkie · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 622

Keep working on the basic steps. (lip clamp, blow a sqeak, bring trumpet to chops, [WHILE squeaking] hold for a few seconds whether a sound comes out or not... repeat) Don't do this more than 5 minutes at a time as Jeff said... continual pounding is not good.

Try moving your mouthpiece around while trying to blow outa a lip clamp... don't be scared to. I used to play pretty low in my normal playing but I moved it up to 2/3 top lip and I got much better tone, endurance, and general comfort. That was pre-BE.

I doubt you will still be struggling with the roll-in in 2 weeks. We all had to push through it like you. Keep on practicing what you normally do, and just practice BE maybe 10-15 minutes a day max till things get moving. Stay the course!
~Kaleb
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_dcstep · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject:

You can have some discomfort in the beginning. If it's just sore muscles, etc., just slow down and take it easier for a few days. When I first started BE, I was blowing crap into my ears and making my lips sore in ways that I hadn't experienced. Given the radical nature of the exercises, that's not surprising. If you'll just back off a little and let yourself recover, you'll gain new strength and things will begin to work better for you.

You've already seen early glimpses of the potential for you in BE. Be patient. If you're a little sore, it's because a muscle is building or you're stretching tendons not previously stretched. All that is a good sign, but you should not aggravate any of that and risk pushing it into all out inflamation. Just back off a let your body adjust.

Dave
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trumpetplayer87 · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:04 am Post subject:

When I get into the rolled in position, and place the mouthpiece on my lips, a Bb (above the staff) usually comes out. When I play the RI#1, the sound often bounces back up to the Bb instead of staying on the G, is this what I'm looking for? The sound isn't the clearest, but it's definitely a note. My red usually isn't all the way rolled in on the right side of my mouth (but is on the other side), I have some scar tissue that formerly (I thought) didn't effect my playing. Any thoughts on that?

Bonnie

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:15 am Post subject:

I suspect that the scar tissue shouldn't be a big concern, so long as the part of your lips under the mpc are rolled in. Maybe Jeff has direct experience with someone having a scar.

The fact that you're going back up to a Bb when you're aiming for a G says two things to me: One is that you are doing the roll-in and not letting it totally collapse when you put the mpc to your lips (that's good, you're not "cheating") and, two, you just need more time with it to gain control. Ultimately you want to hit the notes your shooting for, but just give it time. The roll-in and roll-out are very extreme. One or the other is totally foriegn to most "experienced" players (non-beginners). Expect it to take weeks before you're getting things under control at both extremes.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest