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The Best "Meha"


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The Best "Meha"
Pre-War F. Besson Meha
38%
 38%  [ 18 ]
Post-War F. Besson Meha
14%
 14%  [ 7 ]
Benge Claude Gordon Model
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Kanstul-made F. Besson Meha
14%
 14%  [ 7 ]
Kanstul 1070 "Big Band" Model
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Selmer Claude Gordon Model
19%
 19%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 47

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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yourbrass wrote:
John Mohan wrote:
Actually, I can answer the original question with full authority and should have earlier. The best Meha ever was the 1947 Besson Meha I bought on eBay for $400. It was claimed the horn had belonged originally to Johnny Zell, the trumpet soloist on the Lawrence Welk show. I later confirmed this to be true with Mr. Zell. I put about $475 into a restoration job on the horn which was done beautifully by John Lynch in Florida. And then I later sold it for nearly $3000 to a gentleman who was more than happy to pay the price for it (he had one many years before that had been stolen and it was a life-long dream to have another).

There's no doubt that this particular horn was and is the best Meha of all time. It plays well, looks great, provided one man with the realization of a life-long dream, and provided another with a net profit of well over 300%.



Merry Christmas!


Ah, but John, you haven't played the one that I played that came from the clothing thrift store. Most freakin' unlikely thing I've seen in a while sucka' PLAYS!
-Lionel


And I'll bet it didn't cost nearly three grand either!
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
John Mohan wrote:
Actually, I can answer the original question with full authority and should have earlier. The best Meha ever was the 1947 Besson Meha I bought on eBay for $400. It was claimed the horn had belonged originally to Johnny Zell, the trumpet soloist on the Lawrence Welk show. I later confirmed this to be true with Mr. Zell. I put about $475 into a restoration job on the horn which was done beautifully by John Lynch in Florida. And then I later sold it for nearly $3000 to a gentleman who was more than happy to pay the price for it (he had one many years before that had been stolen and it was a life-long dream to have another).

There's no doubt that this particular horn was and is the best Meha of all time. It plays well, looks great, provided one man with the realization of a life-long dream, and provided another with a net profit of well over 300%.



Merry Christmas!


I'm American and I'm a capitalist. I also understand being tight on cash, and making some bucks. But 300% net profit?

You made $2100 selling a horn to a guy, that had his horn ripped off and his life long dream was to replace it?

Kinda sounds like he got ripped off twice.


You might be American but you are clearly not a capitalist. Because my story about that horn represents the epitome of capitalism.

I used my knowledge and time (effort) in finding a rough looking, but special instrument (kind of like diamond in its natural state - something most people wouldn't recognize). I bought it (invested in it) on eBay, a public website anyone else could have outbid me on if they desired, then further invested in it by using my knowledge to find an expert repairman that specializes in Besson restoration, but doesn't charge an arm and a leg ($475 for complete restoration including patching, polishing and re-lacquering). I paid that expert with my money (further investment), then (years later, meaning I held onto that investment for a while) I placed it on eBay as an auction with an optional buy it now price. A gentleman saw that auction and of his own free will chose to buy the horn from me using the Buy It Now feature. And afterward, he wrote me a letter thanking me for the horn and telling me his story of how he had been searching most of his life for the perfect replacement to the horn he'd had stolen from him so many years ago.

I made money in return for my knowledge, effort and investment. The restoration expert made money for his knowledge, effort and investment. The buyer spent money on a purchase that made him very happy. That's an American story.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
trumpet.sanity wrote:
John Mohan wrote:
Actually, I can answer the original question with full authority and should have earlier. The best Meha ever was the 1947 Besson Meha I bought on eBay for $400. It was claimed the horn had belonged originally to Johnny Zell, the trumpet soloist on the Lawrence Welk show. I later confirmed this to be true with Mr. Zell. I put about $475 into a restoration job on the horn which was done beautifully by John Lynch in Florida. And then I later sold it for nearly $3000 to a gentleman who was more than happy to pay the price for it (he had one many years before that had been stolen and it was a life-long dream to have another).

There's no doubt that this particular horn was and is the best Meha of all time. It plays well, looks great, provided one man with the realization of a life-long dream, and provided another with a net profit of well over 300%.



Merry Christmas!


I'm American and I'm a capitalist. I also understand being tight on cash, and making some bucks. But 300% net profit?

You made $2100 selling a horn to a guy, that had his horn ripped off and his life long dream was to replace it?

Kinda sounds like he got ripped off twice.


You might be American but you are clearly not a capitalist. Because my story about that horn represents the epitome of capitalism.

I used my knowledge and time (effort) in finding a rough looking, but special instrument (kind of like diamond in its natural state - something most people wouldn't recognize). I bought it (invested in it) on eBay, a public website anyone else could have outbid me on if they desired, then further invested in it by using my knowledge to find an expert repairman that specializes in Besson restoration, but doesn't charge an arm and a leg ($475 for complete restoration including patching, polishing and re-lacquering). I paid that expert with my money (further investment), then (years later, meaning I held onto that investment for a while) I placed it on eBay as an auction with an optional buy it now price. A gentleman saw that auction and of his own free will chose to buy the horn from me using the Buy It Now feature. And afterward, he wrote me a letter thanking me for the horn and telling me his story of how he had been searching most of his life for the perfect replacement to the horn he'd had stolen from him so many years ago.

I made money in return for my knowledge, effort and investment. The restoration expert made money for his knowledge, effort and investment. The buyer spent money on a purchase that made him very happy. That's an American story.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested


Excuse me?? I AM a capitalist. More so than I'd like to admit around many of my musician friends, who lean much further left for the most part.

And I said, that I understand making some cash...but 300% profit is in your words "extreme". Which is your prerogative, but I've never seen one sell that high.

Especially a relacquer Besson for 3K??

I think I'll restate my earlier evaluation, and conclude that guy got ripped off not twice, but three times.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, you clearly consider yourself a capitalist, but if so then you're really not thinking this through in a reasonable manner. Or you don't understand the concept of capitalism and a free market economy.

I'll try to make it simpler for you. You seem to suggest that after the man chose to take advantage of the Buy It Now option price of $2950, I should have decided to sell it to him for less money than he was willing to pay for it. Would it not be then just as reasonable for me, after he hit chose the Buy It Now price of $2950 to have expected him to pay more than he was willing to pay?!?!
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Arjuna
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would really like to see Conn Selmer bring back the CG Selmer with the build quality they are producing now.
The time is right for this horn to come back.



John Mohan wrote:
I voted for the CG Selmer and for good reason - as Lionel pointed out, it was based on one of the best early French Besson Meha's out there - Claude Gordon's personal Meha (which according to Claude was a Pre-WW2 horn).

If I could have placed a second vote, it would be for the CG Benge trumpet, also based on Claude's Meha, but built with a slightly smaller .468" bore as Benge didn't want to spend the money for .470" bore tooling.

Though it's not among the available choices in the Poll, and truth be told, I've never played one, I'd like to place a "potentially great" vote for the Burbank 6XCG trumpet currently being produced for Michael Thomas Music by Kanstul and also being sold by Steve Dillard (The Horntrader). This horn is being built to Claude's specifications for his CG Benge, but with the full .470" bore as Claude originally wanted it (and as the Selmer was built later on). Ironically, the reason this Benge-based horn is being built at the .470" bore size is the same reason but in reverse, that the Benges were made with .468" bores - Kanstul no longer has the .468" tooling and didn't want to invest in new tooling for such a limited run of horns. But that means, this is a well made horn that has all the features Claude wanted emulated from his Meha, and it has the Meha look to it (unlike the Selmer where apart from its forward facing 2nd valve tubing, looked pretty much like a Bach).

Last note: The Selmer CG and the Burbank 6XCG are hand-made instruments, and I believe at least for the most part, so was the Benge CG. That made them extremely good values for the money both as new horns, and now as used horns (though I don't think there are many if any used Burbank 6XCG horns out there for sale). The main reason Bach/Selmer stopped making the CG Selmer was not a lack of demand - it was a lack of any profit in the horns, given the time it took to make each one and the fact that the pricing for them was the same as the quicker-to-make Bach Strad at the time.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
Okay, you clearly consider yourself a capitalist, but if so then you're really not thinking this through in a reasonable manner. Or you don't understand the concept of capitalism and a free market economy.

I'll try to make it simpler for you. You seem to suggest that after the man chose to take advantage of the Buy It Now option price of $2950, I should have decided to sell it to him for less money than he was willing to pay for it. Would it not be then just as reasonable for me, after he hit chose the Buy It Now price of $2950 to have expected him to pay more than he was willing to pay?!?!


Willing buyer and willing seller. No dispute or misunderstanding regarding the merchandise, the price or the terms. No buyer complaints. Sounds fine to me.

I have a restored and gold plated French Besson Meha serial # 94xxx that belonged to Bobby Mitchell (Count Basie Orchestra) that I wouldn't sell for less than $3,200.00.
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He should of waited. Here's an original lacquer, cherry Meha for $1700

http://www.ebay.com/itm/F-Besson-Meha-Trumpet-Paris-France-Early-1950s-Unbelievable-shape-/262751463519?hash=item3d2d35285f:g:a-YAAOSwa~BYRw4u

Or what I'd prefer, a nice Brevette for $1999, also original lacquer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-F-Besson-Brevete-Trumpet-/201722470602?hash=item2ef798a0ca:g:-UsAAOSwiONYL3Uk

And I've seen similar horns come and go for a lot less. And while, I agree,the "get what you can and screw your buddy" capitalist ideals are legal, and in principal, fair in a free market. There's also such a thing as just bad business and bad ju-ju, or bad mojo.

Either way, if the guy is happy, and you are happy, hats the definition of a "good deal" but the price just seems so extreme to me. I'm happy you're both happy. But, ewww. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth, when you could have made a thousand dollars and offered a more fair deal (even that is a terrible deal for a relacquer Besson) but alas, life goes on.

Best wishes, and keep an eye out for karma.
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Arjuna
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: The poll Reply with quote

Actually it is both the bow and the archer otherwise why would so many master archers go to so much trouble to produce just the right bow custom made to their specs.


ALaschiver wrote:
Really: The poll and these horns cannot be compared..."apples and oranges"..A prewar Meha is not a post war Meha...other manufacturers stamping "Meha" on a horn doesn't make them a Meha. They were good horns...certainly but stand by themselves. The CG's, 2x's what ever.. great..
but different. I have them all...they are not "better" or worse...just different.
Just play what feels "right". To own and restore an old Besson to perfect
condition (as it came from the factory) is a long laborious and very expense task. I would advise buying a affordable and available horn and practicing..remember "it's not the Bow, it's the Archer"
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Arjuna
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is looking for that beautiful Besson/Benge sound one of the best sounding trumpets I have heard is the Adams A5 originally made for Frank Greene.
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-s-Besson-MEHA-VINTAGE-Made-in-France-LARGE-BORE/152370917598?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D2f5f8d10fac94f75b6cfd7e530c99f8c%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D262751463519

Here's another Meha similar vintage, silver with a few spots for $1700

And I just got a email from a friend, reading this post. He has a similar Meha in silver NO silver wear, he's selling ( domestically) for $1100.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-s-Besson-MEHA-VINTAGE-Made-in-France-LARGE-BORE/152370917598?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D2f5f8d10fac94f75b6cfd7e530c99f8c%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D262751463519

Here's another Meha similar vintage, silver with a few spots for $1700

And I just got a email from a friend, reading this post. He has a similar Meha in silver NO silver wear, he's selling ( domestically) for $1100.


So what? Those horns were not available when the horn I was selling was. And the one I was selling didn't have "a few spots". It's finish was flawless. Yes, it had a few patches on it (which was noted in the description and pictures were provided). But again, so what? I posted an ad with an accurate description and photos of the horn. The horn I sold also had the collector's value of having been owned and played by Lawrence Welk's trumpet soloist for 25 of his 26 years on that TV show. But again, SO WHAT?

A person, of his own free will, decided to exercise the Buy It Now option on an eBay auction and bought the instrument, a purchase that made him (and me) happy. I was not willing to sell it for much less than that (I think the reserve price might have been around $2700). This horn is not just good looking - it's a player, in my opinion. So who the hell are YOU to decide that the price wasn't right?!?! You say you're a "capitalist" but what you bring here is the fact that you believe in a planned economy (where a few - or one - decide what people should sell their goods and services for and what others have to pay for those goods and services). That's not capitalism.

Not that it matters to this discussion, but for those interested, here's a few pictures of that Meha after its restoration.


https://s25.postimg.org/9bewf0afj/DSC08025.jpg


https://s25.postimg.org/65t5ibfin/DSC08037.jpg


https://s25.postimg.org/3zyuntc25/DSC08039.jpg


https://s25.postimg.org/x75d2ddqn/DSC08022b.jpg

Lastly, if your friend is really selling a 1940's French Besson Meha in perfect condition for $1100 that is also a great playing horn (they varied to say the least), I'm sure an informed capitalist out there is going to take him up on that offer real soon...
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those pics prove to me that the bells on my Superchops horns really were made on the same mandrel. Same third valve slide configuration, too. I would not say they are "the best Meha," because Besson used bronze, whereas mine are yellow brass. And of course mine use Kanstul valve blocks, which no doubt sound and play a bit different.

Very nice horns, even so!
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy does it. If you think 3K for a relacquer Besson was a good and fair deal, and both of you are happy, then I'm happy.

And I've posted pics of the the horn I'm helping my friend sell. It's in the market place.

You should buy it, then with your salesmanship you might be able to get 4K for it, and perhaps help to drive up market costs while your at it!!
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe there is a lesson to be learned from Jon's sale, or from that hotdeal1smoko cat on eBay. But I don't know.

And I never said I had any authority or should dictate the way you price a horn for sale. But I'll judge the hell out of it!!

Any way, ancient history, and I'm moving on. Best for a prosperous 2017 and a Happy New Year.

Peace
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plp
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
John Mohan wrote:
Actually, I can answer the original question with full authority and should have earlier. The best Meha ever was the 1947 Besson Meha I bought on eBay for $400. It was claimed the horn had belonged originally to Johnny Zell, the trumpet soloist on the Lawrence Welk show. I later confirmed this to be true with Mr. Zell. I put about $475 into a restoration job on the horn which was done beautifully by John Lynch in Florida. And then I later sold it for nearly $3000 to a gentleman who was more than happy to pay the price for it (he had one many years before that had been stolen and it was a life-long dream to have another).

There's no doubt that this particular horn was and is the best Meha of all time. It plays well, looks great, provided one man with the realization of a life-long dream, and provided another with a net profit of well over 300%.



Merry Christmas!


I'm American and I'm a capitalist. I also understand being tight on cash, and making some bucks. But 300% net profit?

You made $2100 selling a horn to a guy, that had his horn ripped off and his life long dream was to replace it?

Kinda sounds like he got ripped off twice.


Not at all. John had what he wanted, that he got cheap. Then put the money into it to make it as good as he could Then sold it to someone who got what they wanted, at a price they were willing to pay.

America, wadda country. Win/win, all the way around.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
Maybe there is a lesson to be learned from Jon's sale, or from that hotdeal1smoko cat on eBay. But I don't know.

And I never said I had any authority or should dictate the way you price a horn for sale. But I'll judge the hell out of it!!

Any way, ancient history, and I'm moving on. Best for a prosperous 2017 and a Happy New Year.

Peace


Are you seriously comparing my sale (that accurately and honestly described the item being sold, complete with photos) with the auction listings rampant with horribly misleading, false claims made by that scammer who goes by the ID hotdeal1smoko?!?!

I remember one time when he listed a "one of a kind, prototype, preproduction" (or words to that effect) Claude Gordon mouthpiece with an opening bid amount in the hundreds of dollars. And the photo in the auction made it clear to anyone in the know (including him obviously) that it was just a Kanstul made CG Personal available new at the time for $55.

If you want "Peace" maybe you better think about what you've done in this discussion:

• You've explicitly called me a scammer and/or thief on several occasions and in doing that you've implied my customer was a fool.

trumpet.sanity wrote:
Kinda sounds like he got ripped off twice.


trumpet.sanity wrote:
I think I'll restate my earlier evaluation, and conclude that guy got ripped off not twice, but three times.


• And now in your most recent post you've compared me with a known scammer.

Wow.

But all that said, Happy New Year to you, too. With respect, I suggest in the future you give a little more thought to what you write here. Personally, I try to use what I call my "would I say it to someone at a bar?" litmus test (I don't always succeed, but it's been helpful). Another idea would be to use and sign with your real name here as I do. We've all noticed how the most venomous posts here over the years tend to come from the anonymous participants.

Cheers,

John Mohan

P.S. Just to be clear, had you written that you would never pay that much for such a horn, that would have been fine - I would have had no problem with that.


Last edited by John Mohan on Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My comparison wi hotdeal1smoko was referencing inflated pricing, nothing about integrity

I never called you a thief, your words. I did say I thought 3K for a relacquer Besson was a high price.

Never called your customer a fool. Your words. I did say I think he overpaid, and that is all.

Again, as I've stated, you were both happy with the sale. None of my business, and I'm glad you're both happy.

You've clearly taken offense to my observations and opinions about a sale from years ago, and for that I apologize.

I see hyperinflation happening in our very small, specialized market, and I think that's a drag.

The end....really. I hope this can be put to rest. I've apologized, and I am no longer posting on this thread.

Happy New Year, and Peace.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
I never called you a thief, your words.


What do you call someone who rips other people off?

trumpet.sanity wrote:
Kinda sounds like he got ripped off twice.


trumpet.sanity wrote:
I think I'll restate my earlier evaluation, and conclude that guy got ripped off not twice, but three times.


But you are right - you did not explicitly call me a thief. You only implicitly did. Sorry for my misuse of the language.

And yes, we can put this to bed. I only hope you read and consider my suggestions in my previous post.

Best wishes,

John
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
And I've posted pics of the the horn I'm helping my friend sell. It's in the market place.


Just looked at that horn and it is beautiful looking. If it's a great player as well, someone's going to get a fantastic deal at $1100. I'm tempted. But I presently own 15 horns of which 7 are Bb trumpets. It would take a whole lot of 'splainin' to SWAMBO.


Last edited by John Mohan on Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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homebilly
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this thread is all for not as my MEHA is the BEST ever!
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