• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Merging two embouchures



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
rg3000
Regular Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 64
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following is a journal entry from my site.

---

I've been playing with two embouchures since starting the Balanced Embouchure (BE) method six months ago. I begin the day with BE exercises, but when it comes to real playing, I revert back to my old embouchure. My guess is that every experienced player uses two embouchures (old + new) while developing a dependable BE. After all, we spent several years developing our existing embouchures, so of course learning a new embouchure will take time… right?

I don't know if trumpet players are an impatient group of people, but it seems like many of us (myself included) ignore the common sense approach. Instead of patiently letting our new embouchure develop, we get frustrated, looking for immediate results. I suppose this is a testament to how well BE works. When I first tried it, I hit some really high notes. I was thrilled with the idea that I could play them with little mouthpiece pressure… but, of course, I wanted to use it for ALL of my playing, right away.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. BE takes time. In my case, the frustration continued throughout my initial 4 months of playing BE exercises. While I was getting better at BE, I still found it unusable for regular playing due to poor accuracy and a lousy tone.

The turning point for me began a couple of months ago when I added etude playing to my daily practice routine. Specifically, etudes played ONLY with BE. Any etudes will work, but I personally prefer Charlier's. Each day, I open up to a page and play an etude very slowly. I don't worry about rhythm. I don't worry too much about tonguing either. I just try to play the etude as best I can with BE. I don't even play the whole thing… just as much as I can while using a comfortable Balanced Embouchure.

There's a reason I mentioned that I don't worry too much about tonguing. For me (and others, it seems), tonguing with BE is a bit awkward at first. If not done properly, it will cause the note to break, forcing me to reset my embouchure. With practice, though, BE + tonguing does get easier. I just noticed that when I didn't worry about it, I felt less frustrated and consequently improved faster.

I still can't play any etudes with speed or great precision (using BE), but I am definitely getting better. More importantly, since I'm using BE to play *real* music, I've noticed that it's gradually getting easier for me to use BE instead of my old embouchure during my normal playing. And, when I do use my old embouchure, it's looking more like my Balanced Embouchure.

---

Disclaimer: Let it be known that I'm not a BE expert. I'm not even a success story at this point... I'm simply sharing an experience that has helped me. If the above hopelessly destroys your embouchure, blame MoonBoy and Oj they made me do it .


_________________
i was doing all right
jazz.supernonstop.com

[ This Message was edited by: rg3000 on 2004-01-28 06:41 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
oj
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1699
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post, and good topic!

Just one little comment:

You say I don't worry about rhythm.'

Well, I don't think you should ever worry about rhytmn, but you could focus on it. Use it in a "Caruso fashion".

I'm thinking of Caruso and his four rules, especially Rule #1 - Tap foot. This is something that can be integrated into BE, and Jeff have in fact posted about it on his website. I will just qoute a bit of it here:

From my perspective, what Caruso figured out was a way to use our common ordinary rhythmic sense (foot tapping and counting) to bypass the "thinking mind," (with all of it's fears and biases) and instead go directly into the unconscious mind. In theory, you become a slave to the rhythm of a precise footbeat, as your body is constantly prompted at each split second to automatically make the coordinated adjustments necessary to complete the task (play the horn). There is no time to think (or freeze, or worry) as maintaining the rhythm forces you to act.

More here:
http://www.trumpetteacher.net/reviews.html#Carusoawok3

When you work on Charlier etudes with BE, you kind of use it for embouchure development, or?

I have found that if I play something very, very slowly, and tap the foot (and subdivide), I get a much better result, than if I just play the notes without a clear rhythm.

Ole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
_dcstep
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 6324
Location: Denver

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure that I know what a "BE" embouchure is. It's neither rolled-in or rolled-out. It is NOT flat-chinned, BUT for those of us that've played flat-chinned for decades, it might look pretty flat-chinned.

IMHO, there's no single "BE embouchure", particularly when speaking of experienced players with ingrained embouchure "problems" that they're trying to "fix." Working with the extremes of roll-in and roll-out loosens the embouchure and introduces new "feels". For me the roll-in was totally foreign. I didn't ditch my old embouchure and start a new "BE embouchure". Instead, the roll-in element of BE became part of my old embouchure. I also noticed and ability to play all over the mpc instead of just one particular position.

SO, I don't think you can "adopt" a "BE embouchure." Instead, you take elements that were missing from your prior embouchure and add them to the old, creating something new that's more balanced. Make sure that you're doing the BE excercises correctly. Study the pictures, reread the book, use the CD. Some elements can be very hard. I still spend a lot of time in front of the mirror trying to get the scrunched up roll-in to work. It's totally foriegn to me, but when I saw Arturo Sandavol actually doing it in a performance video I thought, "ah hah, that's it. He's fairly flat chinned down in the staff, but when we goes up he really starts looking like the BE roll-in pictures." I still can't manage it routinely, but I do have a rolled-in feel that I incorporate into my practice, playing and performance.

BTW, I'm about ten weeks into BE, with 43-years of open-embouchure, high-pressure playing and three-years of closed-embouchure non-BE playing to my credit.

Best regards,

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
tomba51
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 614
Location: Hilton Head, SC

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of BE is that it is an INDIRECT method. In other words, you simply do the exercises, and let BE naturally work into your embouchure. Therefore, there is no reason to TRY to play with a BE embouchure. You simply let it happen over time. This is discussed on page 56 of the book. Some quotes from that page;

"Smoothly changing to a more efficient embouchure is a side benefit to the indirect approach offered by this system".

"I found that when you extend the range of motion of the lips by using specailly designed exercises done outside of the normal playing range, the lips begin to spontaneously use elements of those movements and reach a point of balance."

"Slowly and naturaly, the old chops fade away."

So don't TRY to play with a BE embouchure. Just do the exercises, and let it INDIRECTLY change your embouchure.

Tom
_________________
Tom Barreca
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rg3000
Regular Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 64
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I re-read the "Direct vs. Indirect" portion of the book after viewing your post. I generally agree with an indirect method of learning things (I'm a big fan of the Inner Game of Tennis/Music books), but I did not experience any noticeable benefits to my old embouchure after 4 months of daily BE practice. My old embouchure was still weak. It wasn't showing any sign of becoming more rolled in/out on its own either. The lack of progress may be due to the fact that I play a lot throughout the day on my old embouchure, or maybe it's because my old embouchure is quite different and inefficient, or maybe I was doing *wrong*… maybe all of the above, maybe something different… Who knows?

I do know that it wasn't until I started playing etudes while consciously trying to use a BE version of my embouchure, that my overall playing really started to strengthen. (note: my BE doesn't look exactly like the pictures. I do my best, though, to follow the descriptions and pictures in the book -- this is mentioned in one of my journal entries, btw). Anyway, after a couple months of the etudes, I'm able to do normal playing with my old embouchure, but that old embouchure looks and feels more like the BE stuff.

Does this fall into 'direct' or 'indirect'? It seems more direct to me, although I'm sure one could argue that there are lots of indirect things happening while I play the etudes.

Will I eventually build a solid BE embouchure that replaces my old embouchure, or will my old embouchure simply gain more BE qualities? I'm guessing the latter, as it seems to be happening already.

Honestly, the answers to these questions aren't important to me. I'm just glad to finally experience noticeable and continued improvements in my overall playing.

---

A quick point on rhythm (oj's post): I do try to keep a fairly steady beat while playing the etudes, but I find that when I tap my foot or use a metronome, I then end up using too much pressure and/or my old embouchure to get the notes to come out at the proper time. Having said this, I will devote some more time to this to see if I can do it without getting too hung up on precision, as the reasoning does make a lot of sense. Thanks for the tip.

_________________
i was doing all right
jazz.supernonstop.com

[ This Message was edited by: rg3000 on 2004-01-28 10:53 ]

[ This Message was edited by: rg3000 on 2004-01-28 11:35 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3398
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a word of clarification here.

There is no particular "look" to a BE embouchure. It tends to have certain characteristics, but these are not always obvious to the naked eye.

However, there is such a thing as a rolled-in setup, which does have a distinct look to it. All the kids on the cover of the BE book are using a rolled-in setup. Several months ago, I explained why I put these particular photos on the cover, but for you newer readers, I chose those pictures to make a point, and counterbalance the flat chin setup which is so over-publicized.

In my experience, less than half of all players adopt a definite rolled-in setup. But the ones that do absolutely understand that it is VERY DIFFERENT than their regular embouchure. For that reason, they tend to call their rolled-in embouchure their BE embouchure. To them it is one and the same.

If this is the case with rg3000 (how about a name?), then he knows what he is talking about, and is not confused.

We just have to keep our terminology straight, that's all.

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
rg3000
Regular Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 64
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are absolutely correct, Jeff. I have been referring to an embouchure that starts with a rolled-in setup as my "BE" embouchure. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. I'll also add a note on my site so it is clear to people what I am referring to when I talk about my "BE" embouchure.

Thanks for helping to clear things up.

-Rick
_________________
www.iwasdoingallright.com - jazz trumpet blog and ear training tools
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group