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I like the sound of cornet over a trumpet


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject: I like the sound of cornet over a trumpet Reply with quote

Noticed that I like the sound of my cornet over my trumpet. The cornet has a deeper sound that I like. The trumpet has a little higher sound.

Noticed with the trumpets I have owned that they are very picky with valve oil.

Is it my imagination?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: I like the sound of cornet over a trumpet Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Noticed that I like the sound of my cornet over my trumpet. The cornet has a deeper sound that I like. The trumpet has a little higher sound.

Noticed with the trumpets I have owned that they are very picky with valve oil.

Is it my imagination?

Which part?
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's called sarcasm, Jon.

Valves are metal pistons, regardless where they come from. The impact is the quality of build of the horn, regardless if it's cornet or trumpet.

Cornets are generally a little more reserved than trumpets, considering, however, that some cornets sound more trumpety and some trumpets can be more reserved.

Also something that might be considered is, if applicable, is how the horn sounds in a section or ensemble.

Otherwise, if you like it just play it. And enjoy it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: both parts Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
The cornet to me has a lower sound that the trumpet.

All the trumpets I have owned are very picky with valve oil.

The cornet and trumpet are both pitched the same (at least probably) in Bb. The cornet might have a different sound quality, though. I certainly like them.

As was posted above, the main factors how well valves work is how well they were made, who made them, their condition and how they have been cared for, the oil used, and the personal chemistry of the player using them and the players that did use them before (if you're not the original owner). Lots of variables.

Thinking that trumpet pistons are more picky with oil than cornet ones is like saying all cars are tan because you've owned two tan cars. (Also, tan vehicles are lame)

Whether a set of pistons is cornet or trumpet doesn't matter at all to whether they work well or not.
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Bflatman
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience of playing cornets and trumpets is that the biggest differences are in the mouthpiece. I use big deep and heavy mouthpieces in trumpet and my tones are cornet like.

Try choosing a different mouthpiece in your trumpets.

I find no difference between valves that are specific to the instrument. I play on 3 trumpets and 2 cornets, all have great valves.

The one instrument that was problematic was a trumpet and that was due to a lifetime of accumulated crud on the valves that once removed transformed them into good valves. It was over 90 years old when it came to me so it had significant neglect and cleaning issues.

Most issues with valves are I believe down to the care of the valves and instrument I think. Over the years they gather crud.

Buy an old instrument, oil it, play it, result unhappiness. Buy an old instrument, de-crud the valves, re-spring them, re-felt them, oil them, result happiness.
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: cleaning trumpet Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice. I will continue cleaning the valves on the trumpet and take it easy on the valve oil.
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I typically clean my valves with a bit of baking soda and warm water. Baking soda's mild abrasive quality usually does the trick. Be sure to rinse the thoroughly after cleaning them.
If I don't have any baking soda I'll use toothpaste. Be sure that the toothpaste doesn't have a gritty quality that could scratch. Also rinse thoroughly.
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roynj
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: cleaning trumpet Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I will continue cleaning the valves on the trumpet and take it easy on the valve oil.


Be sure not to spin your valves in their casings. When you remove a valve, pull it straight out, apply oil, then straight back into it's cylinder. If you do this routinely, you will eliminate most problems with hanging or sticking valves.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: cleaning trumpet Reply with quote

roynj wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I will continue cleaning the valves on the trumpet and take it easy on the valve oil.


Be sure not to spin your valves in their casings. When you remove a valve, pull it straight out, apply oil, then straight back into it's cylinder. If you do this routinely, you will eliminate most problems with hanging or sticking valves.

No matter how many times I do it your way, they hang up eventually. I go back to spinning then to fully coat the valves, and they work perfectly.
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david johnson
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

use kerosene for valve oil a few times
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Thanks all Reply with quote

Thanks all for the information. Baking soda worked well. My cornet valves are not as picky as my trumpet.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: I like the sound of cornet over a trumpet Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Noticed that I like the sound of my cornet over my trumpet. The cornet has a deeper sound that I like. The trumpet has a little higher sound.

Noticed with the trumpets I have owned that they are very picky with valve oil.

Is it my imagination?


I found this thread because there hasn't been anything of great interest in quite a while. I love the cornet. I never play trumpet anymore. The assertion that the mouthpiece is the only difference, I find has no validity. I just found a second example of one of my favorites, the H. N. White, The Clevelander.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My background is such that as a student I had a Besson student model cornet & was happy with it. I went to make a purchase of a Cuesnon fluegelhorn for under a $100, but the music store owner talked my dad & I into a $275 shiny silver Olds trumpet on the basis that when I go to Berklee College of Music with that "antiquated" cornet(4 years later!) I'd get "laughed out of the place".

Well maybe, but then (1970) Nate Adderly, Bobby Jacket & Art Farmer, Woody Shaw, weren't laughed at, & furthermore I had 4 years to worry about it. It was a flugelhorn that I wanted, largely because I found the trumpet, & even my own cornet bright. Yes, as with all student's cornet mouthpiece it came with a shallow 7C that matched the Old's 7C. These instruments were bright & beamy, with the cornet being perhaps a little softer.

The following year I had my first lesson with a local teacher who had studied trombone with John Coffey, & I brought my cornet. He told me to never bring that cornet to my lesson again. Next week I brought the Olds trumpet. He lambasted it, telling me there are only 3 good brass manufacturers: Holton; Reynalds & Bach. He then called my parents & told them strongly that I had to get a better trumpet. The next lesson he had a Bach Strad waiting for me that he was selling for John Coffey. I hated that Strad, & all 3 instruments were strident. Had I pulled my own strings I could have waited & purchased a Holton MF horn, which was very open & diffuse.

Ultimately the inherent brightness of the instrumoet put me off. The trumpet's one of my least favorite jazz instruments, & the flugelhorn one if my favorites. Compare Roy Hargroves trumoet to his flugelhorn sound. Or Woody shaw. I do often project in my mind a scenario in which to get a trumpet sound I could live with, having Bill Tottle (my repairman then) make or bend a cornet into a trumpet shape, & get mouthpieces of varying depths.

Better still, a German style trumpet might be better. I have always had a type of fetish for the sound of the VPO & BPO trumpets. Only fairly recently have I learned that those rotary valve trumpets have a short lead pipe section going g to the valves, & that leaves a longer section of tubing from the valves to the bell flare. Greater overall conicity than on a standard cornet should mean a darker sound. (I don't think rotary valve instrument makers make a "trumpet" "cornet" distinction. Something to consider though.

I have seen on eBay what are termed "rotary valve cornets" & they really prove to be cheap pocket rotary valve trumpets. I am intensely intrigued by them, but afraid of the valves failing.
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brassmusician
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may not like the sound of the cornet over the trumpet. This breaks the rules of this website, it is the "trumpetherald" after all. Please listen to 10 trumpet albums to re-educate yourself before posting again.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brassmusician wrote:
You may not like the sound of the cornet over the trumpet. This breaks the rules of this website, it is the "trumpetherald" after all. Please listen to 10 trumpet albums to re-educate yourself before posting again.


I'm sorry but I think the OP does like the sound of a cornet over a trumpet. What's an album?
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scipioap
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bassguy wrote:
What's an album?

I believe it's a collection of online photos. Which brings up the point that trumpets are more photogenic and aesthetically attractive. This is especially true of the Committee, just view the Kevin Dean video again. Or look at my avatar, which also proves an historical marketing consensus.

EDIT: Alright, I might make an exception for the Schilke Eb.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, could you really imagine Botti playing this $81 counterpart to what he plays now? (...hmm, I wonder if that could be melted and turned into a $7k clone of Botti's horn?)
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Last edited by scipioap on Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Are you guys joking?

Surely when brassmusician said album, he meant a CD/Record/Cassette with a number of tracks.

I'm probably showing my age when I mention records and cassettes. In my day, albums in a record format were called LPs.

I imagine that brassmusician's whole post was meant tongue in cheek.

All the best

Lou

In case you really didn't know the term album in the context of music:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album
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snichols
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Hi

Are you guys joking?

Surely when brassmusician said album, he meant a CD/Record/Cassette with a number of tracks.

I'm probably showing my age when I mention records and cassettes. In my day, albums in a record format were called LPs.

I imagine that brassmusician's whole post was meant tongue in cheek.

All the best

Lou

In case you really didn't know the term album in the context of music:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album


Yes, Lou, I think there's a lot of joking/sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek stuff flying around in this thread.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snichols wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Hi

Are you guys joking?

Surely when brassmusician said album, he meant a CD/Record/Cassette with a number of tracks.

I'm probably showing my age when I mention records and cassettes. In my day, albums in a record format were called LPs.

I imagine that brassmusician's whole post was meant tongue in cheek.

All the best

Lou

In case you really didn't know the term album in the context of music:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album


Yes, Lou, I think there's a lot of joking/sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek stuff flying around in this thread.


Hi snichols

I hope so lol, or I've become extremely old

Take care

Lou
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- James R New Custom 3Cs
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Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

bassguy wrote:
What's an album?


Funny, my iPhone calls things albums. I listened to Red Allen yesterday. What a player!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnVRHyntrWc
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