What does the term "payin your dues" mean to you?

[Tpt_Guy]

As someone who recently got chickens, I can offer this analogy:

Paying your dues = Working your way up the pecking order.

Some naturally are above others by sheer ability, intelligence, drive or a brilliant combination of the three. They have less work to do to get noticed and looked​ up to.

And much like chickens in a flock, the rest of us have to work our butts off and prove ourselves, and hope someone notices us. We have to be willing to persist and grunt our way through things we don't like in hopes of making it to the top.
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[jimjehu]

rusty,you just wrote my obit

[gstump]

Very intellectual stuff here! I hate intellectualizing music or trumpet playing but this is different.

You jam or rehearse in the freebee composers groups or experimental jazz groups to take something from them. You are there to learn from them. Eventually you might be giving more than you are taking. So you hang around and give some back until it is time to go out and make your mark.

It is all about music not bad gigs (or the union).


Gordon
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Couesnon Flug (1967)
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[PH]

Lots of interesting thoughts in this thread.

The number one aspect of dues paying is twofold.
1) Spending thousands of hours "in the 'shed."
2) Spending thousands of hours with recordings of the music until you know dozens (hundreds really) of tunes-not just melody and changes, but intros, endings, send-offs, counter lines, etc.- and can sing most of the classic solos.
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Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
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Founder and director of JazzRetreats.com

[PH]

In addition to my above comment, it is also immersing yourself in the culture of jazz (as much as it still exists). That doesn't necessarily mean the marketplace of "jazz," but it definitely means finding elders and learning from them the old school way outside of academia...even if they do double duty as academic professors.

PS...Jason has absolutely paid his dues, as has Jeff. Jeff might be an "amateur" now, but let's just say "Ray Charles"...
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Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
Founder and director of JazzRetreats.com

[BeboppinFool]

The question on the table reminds me of that famous quote:

“Man, if you have to ask what jazz is, you’ll never know.” — Louis Armstrong
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Puttin’ On The Ritz

[lakejw]

Great thread. After reading some replies, I have gathered two thoughts about this.

One is the precept that paying dues connotes some kind of material improvement of one's self or situation. For example, this rehearsal doesn't pay but it's with some great musicians. Or, this gig was terrible, but I learned about my boundaries, and to say "no thanks" next time they call.

The other is that you never really stop paying dues. Or, you never should stop. All the things Pat mentioned are difficult, very time-intensive and laborious, but upon reflection are actually really fun to me. It's what I spend my days and nights doing. The desire to pay dues is a bellwether of your passion for music.
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[kehaulani]

Having put in the requisite amount of grief to accomplish the stated goal.
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[area51recording]

Dues paying never ends. I started playing professionally at 18. I'll be 60 tomorrow.......stillllllll payin'.........

[bg]

[PH]

[so what]

[Hugh Anderson]

Learning all the aspects of your trade. Doing it long enough to refine it.

[meoates1]

It's been said it takes 10 (or 15, or whatever arbitrary amount) years to make an overnight success. That 10-15 years (whether it be practicing, gigging... whatever) is the "paying dues" portion of the equation.
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