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Trumpette2017 New Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Posts: 8
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: What Am I Doing Wrong? :( |
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Over the past year, I've gotten very serious with practicing and have't missed more than one day every week or two. My main motivation for practicing was to somehow improve my range (my range has always been the worst part) to play first in marching season without breaking a sweat. Now, when I mention "improve my range", I don't mean I'm looking to high a double C or match Wayne Bergeron. I'd be happy with even hitting the C at the top of the staff.
I have this amazing teacher who's led many others to high Cs and beyond, and I have been following every one of his steps and warm-ups carefully for the past year, both in the lesson and at home. I have managed to increase my range by two notes (comfortably playing As) but it just WILL not go any higher. Even so, later in the practice session, these As don't seem nearly as comfortable anymore. It frustrates me to no end. Since I've never been able to play in the upper register very well, I assume much of it is mental... but until I can finally feel comfortable playing up there, the mental block will not go away.
Does anyone have any tips to finally reach that C? Gah, maybe I'm just not meant to play high. |
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Bluesy Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2014 Posts: 477
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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1. Don't press the horn to your lips too much.
2. Say "Tish" for the high notes.
3. Play lots and lots of pp and mf long tones on the high notes that you DO have under control. Don't do them until you are frazzled out or you won't be able to do them daily.
4. If you can't do the high-note long tones every day because you ARE frazzled out, do them every other day.
5. Rest 1 minute between long tones and do a big horse lip-flap once in a while.
Bluesy/ _________________ Finally Beiderbecke took out a silver cornet. He put it to his lips and blew a phrase. The sound came out like a girl saying ‘yes.’. . . . .Eddie Condon/ |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10202 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure some of the teachers on TH will chime in with suggestions. I don't teach but I've taken plenty of lessons from good instructors and here's what I/then would suggest:
Before you do anything take some long, slow, deep breaths - and relax!
Buzz your mouthpiece softly for a minute before you play anything.
When you get ready to play be sure you're taking a full breath and not holding it before you play the note - breathe and go!
Have a regular practice routine - there's lots of them in the front of most any method book you choose.
Structure your playing day into as many short sessions as you can fit into whatever else you're doing. Six ten minute blows will build your chops way faster than one 60-minute session.
Try moving your first notes of the day up. Instead of starting on first line G, for example, start on third space C. Eventually start on G above the staff and go up from there.
Always stop playing before your sound starts to go. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.ā€¯ Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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JSco Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2014 Posts: 144
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Trumpette 2017, are you in high school? Your frustrations sound very close to the ones I experienced through high school. My endurance and range could never match what I was hoping for. I eventually took two years off from the trumpet after my freshman year of college. When I picked it up again, my range was much, much better than it ever had been. At that point I was 21, and I hadn't touched a trumpet for those two years off.
I bring this up because in addition to practicing the horn correctly, you might not experience a higher range until your body grows and matures physically (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way at all). While it's very possible the way I was practicing was incorrect, looking back I feel like my face structure/muscles just weren't physically ready to play what I was hearing.
Another thing to keep in mind is physical exercise. The best thing I've done for my trumpet playing is pushing my younger toddlers in a double jogging stroller. I also have a heavy punching bag and a speed rope that have both had an impact as well. Since the trumpet is so physical, you have to match your straight trumpet playing with physical exercise. Some people are able to get away with not really exercising and play in the upper range, but it sounds like you (like me) aren't one of those people.
Try an experiment. Don't practice for 1-2 weeks and do some intense aerobic and anaerobic exercise. Come back to the trumpet and see how it feels.
Good luck, and be patient with yourself! |
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Pops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2002 Posts: 2039 Location: Dallas (Grand Prairie), Texas
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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
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You have had some good advice so far.
Pay attention to what Jim said about working towards a higher setpoint of your embouchure over time.
When we set for low notes and play then the higher notes are a lot of work. The lips can only adjust up so far and then we get stuck. So 1 major key is setting just a little higher middle C is a good place for a player with your range.
The tiss for notes above the staff is also good. The tiss sound of the hiss needs to continue for the entire note because the hiss focuses the air to a smaller part of the lip instead of blowing air to all of the lip. It can help a great deal.
Whistling the notes you play when you play them also helps.
There are a lot of pages of free info on my webpage, breath support, tongue arch, lip compression... Go take a look. _________________ Clint 'Pops' McLaughlin
You can always Google me.
50 years Teaching. Teaching and writing trumpet books is ALL I do.
7,000 pages of free music. Trumpet Books, Skype Lessons: www.BbTrumpet.com |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2310 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:44 am Post subject: |
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It sounds (reads) like you are on a good path and you have some good suggestions here.
beyond that this is what I tell my students, "don't worry about range"
Range is one element of playing - work all! Good tone, finger technique, musical play and interpretation, range, speed etc.. small chunks on a daily basis
Some of us don't figure out range for a while - keep pluggin' it will come.
Then advice on this matter is difficult as we do get to see or hear you play/practice.. We trust that your routine is based on a solid approach, that you actually practice sufficiently-with plently of rest built in, have equipment that fits you, embouchure is stable, etc.
Play musically, work on getting better in all aspects - (including daily work on your range.)
keep pluggin' _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:48 am Post subject: |
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There are some interesting responses here, but for me, without seeing or hearing you play, or knowing what equipment you are playing on, it's kind of hard to know.
I had a kid in my jazz band last year who had a nice sound, but he struggled for anything above a top line F. I had a couple of thoughts on it, but I kept them to myself because he had a private instructor, and it wasn't my place to get in the middle of that. My contention for why he was struggling came down to a few things:
1.) He was doing some work on his fundamentals in a way that I felt was detrimental to chops focus - particularly with some lip slur exercises that had been given to him by his private teacher. They were causing him to spread and thin out as he ascended.
2.) It's possible that his mouthpiece was a bit too big for his chops and level of development. I loaned him some stuff to try out, but I don't think he ever did.
3.) Part of it was mental. As he ascended, it was like he shrank back into himself. He'd close off and shut down his air, and as a result, he simply never had the air compression to sustain anything above that F. I COULD NOT get this kid to blow hard to save my life, and I think that if he'd simply pushed some more air, it would have given him that last 4th of G to 2nd ledger C.
That was my assessment based on observation - without seeing or hearing you, it's hard to say what will help in your situation. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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bnsd Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2014 Posts: 126
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I understand you have endurance problems and your range is not where you would like it. Sometimes, not always, those two go hand in hand.
I'm not a full time pro, never took private lessons, never taught, etc, so my suggestions may be a little off base, but I DON'T think it can hurt.
breath support- if you don't have the wind, you're probably CRAMMING your horn into your face, exacerbating the situation
relax- you're probably stressing yourself out about it, again... making it worse
flexibility- don't work so hard on a C, that other notes go to the wayside. I remember a lot of trumpet players in high school working SO much on range that everything else thinned out, cracks galore and section blending was terrible.
I'm still working on my range (53 years old) and still not where I want it, but most people think I play high... what I want them to think is that I play well.
Practice well, and don't wipe yourself out during practice. Lips need to heal. |
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oxleyk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4178
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if the OP has improved in the three years since this was posted? |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:54 am Post subject: |
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oxleyk wrote: | I wonder if the OP has improved in the three years since this was posted? |
Ugh! I hate it when that happens - I didn't realize this thread was 3 years old when I posted to it. This kid probably doesn't even play trumpet anymore. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: Re: What Am I Doing Wrong? :( |
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Trumpette2017 wrote: | Over the past year, I've gotten very serious with practicing and have't missed more than one day every week or two. My main motivation for practicing was to somehow improve my range (my range has always been the worst part) to play first in marching season without breaking a sweat. Now, when I mention "improve my range", I don't mean I'm looking to high a double C or match Wayne Bergeron. I'd be happy with even hitting the C at the top of the staff.
I have this amazing teacher who's led many others to high Cs and beyond, and I have been following every one of his steps and warm-ups carefully for the past year, both in the lesson and at home. I have managed to increase my range by two notes (comfortably playing As) but it just WILL not go any higher. Even so, later in the practice session, these As don't seem nearly as comfortable anymore. It frustrates me to no end. Since I've never been able to play in the upper register very well, I assume much of it is mental... but until I can finally feel comfortable playing up there, the mental block will not go away.
Does anyone have any tips to finally reach that C? Gah, maybe I'm just not meant to play high. |
One way or another you're blocking the sound from coming out. Its probably a misalignment or missuse of embouchure and/or air support.
If I was your teacher I wouldnt have the nerve to charge you a cent until I had helped you unblock your range.
A high C is a normal note to have. Its not outstanding range at all. Your teacher (in my opinion) ought to be able to assist you at fixing this impass immediately.
Range does not increase by one or two notes at a time. It comes on huge chunks which calve off like a glacier. One day you couldnt play high C to save your life?
The next weekend your neighbors want to evict the family because you're killing their ears with high G's. That is how range works. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:59 am Post subject: Re: What Am I Doing Wrong? :( |
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Lionel wrote: | One way or another you're blocking the sound from coming out. |
Nailed it.
At least a place to look not yet mentioned. I had a horrible time in college with range. Teachers gave me all kinds of sophisticated exercises. But, I realized much later, that all the hip exercises in the world don't make much sense unless you first make sure the most fundamental things are in order.
In my case, I was simply not feeding air directly. If this is the problem, what has helped me considerably is tonguing between the teeth exercises, creating an unobstructed air flow. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dark Knight Regular Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2011 Posts: 74 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:37 pm Post subject: It might not be what you think. |
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I understand the frustration. In reality, what you say you are doing may not be what you are really doing. It is not just you. To the untrained person, describing exactly what we do for motor skill is usually wrong. To complicate matters, responders can't really know if what you say you are doing is really correct. Now, you may have a wonderful teacher but he may not have the same degree of experience really perceiving what a player is doing and how to correct it as Pops Mclaughlin or have a well laid-out routine like John Mohan. And, there are others who are experts in just this particular area. It will be well worth it to contact them for a Skype lesson(s) so that can really see, hear and help. It will be the best thing you do to progress.
DK _________________ I learn from my mistakes. I can repeat them perfectly every time. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2611 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Quote from Pops:
Quote: | Whistling the notes you play when you play them also helps. |
Instant poll. Is there anybody here who can't whistle? Specifically with the lips puckered? _________________ Richard
Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | Quote from Pops:
Quote: | Whistling the notes you play when you play them also helps. |
Instant poll. Is there anybody here who can't whistle? Specifically with the lips puckered? |
I can only produce a very weak whistle with puckered lips like I see other do. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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thehedge Regular Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 73
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: |
Instant poll. Is there anybody here who can't whistle? Specifically with the lips puckered? |
I've never been able to whistle. Never figured out how. Even tried the "breathe in" method some suggest to find the right pucker / mouth positions. (It's supposed to be easier but couldn't do that either.) |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2611 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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It's not just pucker, it's also the position of the tongue. Try keeping the sides of the tongue on the side teeth. _________________ Richard
Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Whistling is wholly unrelated to brass playing embouchure. Although by practicing it you may accidentally put your chops in a more favorable position to accept the air and convert into sustainable high notes.
But I'm going to re-quote myself. To the O/P,
So long as you're putting a decent sized amount of air pressure behind your chops but you're still not getting a high C? You are somehow misusing your embouchure. Most likely there isnt enough upper lip flesh available below your upper teeth.
The mouthpiece rim and our teeth work like bookends. There's no way to get your chops working without the proper placement of the upper lip between these two terminations. Look at your teeth/mouthpiece rim combination like the two edges of a vise. The kind Dad had in the garage.
Now lets say Dad was welding a couple pieces of steel together. So he holds each in a vise. Well if he doesnt leave enough slack on the steel product available on either of the vises? He can not join the two parts together.
Similarly if the "vise" of your upper teeth does not allow sufficient free lip to vibrate? You wont have any upper register at all. I'm kinda glad to have thought up the "vise" idea tonight. Wonder why I never thought of it before?
It is the looseness of the upper lip both inside the mouthpiece cup and below your upper teeth which is often the missing element. "You cant play on your teeth" expert brass teacher Bill Moriarty says. And my friend pay attention here,
Your range problem is gut easy to fix. So long as you realize that you are somehow preventing the tone to emanate. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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