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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: Monette B2S3 vs B6S1 |
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Hi everyone. So I recently acquired a B2S3 and B6S1. Both pieces are fantastic, and provide me with a beautiful sound, great flexibility and resonance. The thing is, the B2S3 decreases my endurance. The rim is also less comfortable than the B6S1. The B6S1 on the other hand, provides me with greater endurance, but I loose the huge sound I get with the B2S3. The rim is comfortable, but I could use something a tad smaller and with a bigger cup. I've had a B3FS7 in the past, which was fantastic, although the rim was a little sharper. I'm thinking of trying a B3S3 or a B4S3, and hopefully that'll be the medium I need. Any recommendations or suggestions along the Monette line? It's a more expensive safari, so I though't I'd ask before I buy. Thanks.
Bryant |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I've had a few Monette mouthpieces over the years and I've enjoyed them all for different reasons. The trade off you're talking about sounds perfectly logical. I have a B4S3, C4S3, and B4S S2. The B4S3 is a fantastic piece. It's about the size of a Bach 2c but of course with the Monette tweaks. It's a great all around mouthpiece. It works great for me. _________________ Kevin |
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MarkZ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 615
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Have you called the shop? Jason is great for mouthpiece consultation, even if only by phone. However, there are no returns when buying direct. Mike Thompson allows returns. Outside the people at the Monette shop, he might be the most knowledgeable person in the country about Monette gear.
I did a shop visit when I was playing a classic B3FS7. Dave suggested I try a Prana B2S3. Huge improvement in tone! I was skeptical about playing a larger piece and the possible effect on endurance but there wasn't any loss over time. I added a Prana B2LS3 in an LT blank, bought used, for a little more "sizzle" playing in a big band. _________________ Monette LTJ Bb
Getzen Severinsen Bb
Kanstul 1500 Bb
Kanstul 1525 flugel
Monette Prana B2S3, B2FL, B2LS3
Monette Prana FLG2 |
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Norman Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 383 Location: Milan, Italy
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:40 am Post subject: |
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I used the B2S3 to practice for a few years, but could never use it in any performance. The sound is fantastic, but it is big and requires near perfect technique and efficiency to be played successfully. I ended playing the B6 size in the end.
Yes, the B4 size might be a mid way compromise, but it might still be too big. My suggestion is to stick with the B6S1 if it is comfortable for you and work to develop the best possible sound with it. I don't think that any audience would really notice the difference in sound between such similar sizes, while it will certainly notice if you're playing with less effort and more endurance!
The good thing about Monette mouthpieces is that they sound so good! Even the lead mouthpieces have a great sound. Just look for what gives you the most comfortable playing feeling. _________________ "Don't play like a trumpeter, play like a singer!" Andrea Giuffredi
Taylor Chicago X-Lite
AR Resonance MC 40/8 Mouthpiece |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:31 am Post subject: |
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MarkZ wrote: | Have you called the shop? Jason is great for mouthpiece consultation, even if only by phone. However, there are no returns when buying direct. Mike Thompson allows returns. Outside the people at the Monette shop, he might be the most knowledgeable person in the country about Monette gear.
I did a shop visit when I was playing a classic B3FS7. Dave suggested I try a Prana B2S3. Huge improvement in tone! I was skeptical about playing a larger piece and the possible effect on endurance but there wasn't any loss over time. I added a Prana B2LS3 in an LT blank, bought used, for a little more "sizzle" playing in a big band. |
Do you use the prana for all of your trumpets, or just on the Monette? How does it work for you on your other horns? |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: |
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There seem to be at least two different issues here:
1) The rim contour;
2) The rim diameter.
The preference for the 'bigger' sound that a larger-diameter mouthpiece can give you can make playing one with a narrower diameter frustrating, yet the comfort factor of the B6 rim over that of the B2 speaks to the issue of contour. The B2 has a somewhat rounded profile, but then there is what I would describe as a medium-sharp 'bite' as it enters the cup. The B6 rim is quite round in contour, both as the player's lips engage the mouthpiece rim, and as the rim turns into the cup.
I play Monette 1-1 series mouthpieces which have a VERY round contour, almost disguising how large the effective rim diameter is, when measured from the 'high point' (where the lips engage the mouthpiece). Since 1-1s are very large, specialized mouthpieces, and also since I believe that Monette mouthpieces have extended my engagement with music, I've tried out several smaller-sized mouthpieces for applications such as Piccolo Trumpet playing and Big Band Lead gigs.
My experience with the B2 rim is that it is at first comfortable, but not quite small enough for an effective specialist mouthpiece for me, and that 'bite' into the large cup was similarly uncomfortable for me, as I am accustomed to a uniquely round rim. Further, I had a BP6S1 mouthpiece for a period of time, as I was trying to work up the Brandenburg, but I ultimately felt that I was trying to 'squeeze' into a mouthpiece a few sizes too small for me...even though I found the rim contour comfortable.
So, insofar as my personal experience going on mouthpiece safari for a smaller mouthpiece for specialized work can help you, I would like to say how much I've enjoyed the B4LDS1 mouthpiece as a perfect compromise between the not-too small concern I had, as well as the not-too sharp concern I think we share with the B2 rim contour.
Many people use the B4LDS1 as an all-round mouthpiece, since it's roughly comparable to a Bach 3C in cup depth (so it's not really THAT shallow), but it can also be looked upon as a specialist mouthpiece. The other B4 series mouthpieces offer a few different contours and slight variations in diameter - the B4S S2 is the modern 'Slap' upgrade over the previous B4S, which was modeled after Lew Soloff's Mt. Vernon (or NY?) 3C, which has a larger rim diameter than the modern 3C**. I believe the contour of the B4LDS1 is somewhat rounder than that of the B4S S2, and the B4S3 may share the same rim as the B4LDS1 - but that is worth following up with Jason or BJ at Monette, or Mike Thompson, as others have suggested.
Happy hunting, and I hope this helps!
*For those of you interested in a nice resource on the 3C/1.5C debacle, and some of the issues with using Bach sizing as a yardstick, Ivan Hunter's innovative 'one size fits most' mouthpiece approach sheds much light on this issue: http://www.jaegerbrass.com/products/mouthpieces.html
Best,
-Dan _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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MarkZ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 615
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | Do you use the prana for all of your trumpets, or just on the Monette? How does it work for you on your other horns? |
I bought my LTJ here on TH when I was still on the classic B3FS7 for my Getzen & Kanstul. I rarely play the old horns since then so I haven't played the Prana pieces on non-Monette horns. Purely anecdotally, I've found more non-Monette trumpet players prefer the classic Monette over the Prana.
I also love the flugel cup B2FL for playing in small groups, especially on ballads. Sounds like buttah. _________________ Monette LTJ Bb
Getzen Severinsen Bb
Kanstul 1500 Bb
Kanstul 1525 flugel
Monette Prana B2S3, B2FL, B2LS3
Monette Prana FLG2 |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: |
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MarkZ wrote: | Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | Do you use the prana for all of your trumpets, or just on the Monette? How does it work for you on your other horns? |
I bought my LTJ here on TH when I was still on the classic B3FS7 for my Getzen & Kanstul. I rarely play the old horns since then so I haven't played the Prana pieces on non-Monette horns. Purely anecdotally, I've found more non-Monette trumpet players prefer the classic Monette over the Prana.
I also love the flugel cup B2FL for playing in small groups, especially on ballads. Sounds like buttah. |
I had a B4LDS1 84 Prana for a little while. I loved the sound I got. It had a huge sound for a lead piece. Unfortunately, I wasn't efficient enough at the time to make it work on a regular basis. It's been some time now so I'm considering revisiting Prana because I'm starting to feel a little restricted by the standard backbore. You should visit the shop if you can or at least call. _________________ Kevin |
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for each suggestion and insight. I've narrowed down my options, and also sent a message through Monette's website inquiring about suggestions for a medium between these two pieces. Thanks again everyone! |
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Norman Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 383 Location: Milan, Italy
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:44 am Post subject: |
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I agree that the LDS cup is a very nice compromise to balance the big throat and large backbore but still with a fairly "deep cup" sound. _________________ "Don't play like a trumpeter, play like a singer!" Andrea Giuffredi
Taylor Chicago X-Lite
AR Resonance MC 40/8 Mouthpiece |
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Jazz@heart Regular Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Consider the B4S S2. Their version of the MV3C. Bigger than regular 3C with less bite. To me, much more comfortable than the B6S1. _________________ Listen |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone here played the C4S S2 (On C trumpet)? Just wondering how you found it.
That's the right diameter for me, but I haven't seen them mentioned much, only the larger sizes. |
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Arjuna Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Posts: 240 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Monette B2S3 vs B6S1 |
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Call Jason custom work may be what you need.
Bryant Jordan wrote: | Hi everyone. So I recently acquired a B2S3 and B6S1. Both pieces are fantastic, and provide me with a beautiful sound, great flexibility and resonance. The thing is, the B2S3 decreases my endurance. The rim is also less comfortable than the B6S1. The B6S1 on the other hand, provides me with greater endurance, but I loose the huge sound I get with the B2S3. The rim is comfortable, but I could use something a tad smaller and with a bigger cup. I've had a B3FS7 in the past, which was fantastic, although the rim was a little sharper. I'm thinking of trying a B3S3 or a B4S3, and hopefully that'll be the medium I need. Any recommendations or suggestions along the Monette line? It's a more expensive safari, so I though't I'd ask before I buy. Thanks.
Bryant |
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oxleyk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: |
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I recently read that due to the high point location of the B2S3 rim it actually feels slightly smaller than the B4S S3 rim. Can anyone comment on this?
Kent |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:01 am Post subject: |
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oxleyk wrote: | I recently read that due to the high point location of the B2S3 rim it actually feels slightly smaller than the B4S S3 rim. Can anyone comment on this?
Kent |
That was not my experience. B2S3 feels bigger on my face. _________________ Kevin |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | Has anyone here played the C4S S2 (On C trumpet)? Just wondering how you found it.
That's the right diameter for me, but I haven't seen them mentioned much, only the larger sizes. |
Based on my experience with my equipment, a C4S S2 would be too bright. It depends on all the other factors, of course, but the reason I ended up with the B/C4S3 was because my B4S S2 is too focused for orchestral work. The sound and feel are great, just not right for classical music. I would expect the same, only brighter, on c trumpet. _________________ Kevin |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kevin,
Ah okay, good to know.
I had worried about that possibility but that model is what the shop recommended when I said I wanted a piece for my C trumpet that's around or maybe a little larger than a bach 3C.
But they don't have any classic's made in the new resonance blank, so I'd have to wait for possibly several months. Sounds like the C4S3 might be the better way to go then. Handily, I believe they have got that model ready to ship.
Thanks! |
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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It’s now down to the B4S S2 and the B4S3. Which would be more suitable for all around playing? Main differences between the two? Thank you all again. I’m planning on ordering the piece as a Resonance Prana, just fyi. |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Bryant Jordan wrote: | It’s now down to the B4S S2 and the B4S3. Which would be more suitable for all around playing? Main differences between the two? Thank you all again. I’m planning on ordering the piece as a Resonance Prana, just fyi. |
Find a used STC-1 before ordering a Res Prana!
I've had a B4S3 in the past. It's a unique mouthpiece. The closet thing I can compare that rim to is a Parke 640. It's very much like a Bach 1X (or Monette B12) scaled down just a bit. The cup seemed pretty much identical to the B2S3. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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