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alber_trp New Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2017 Posts: 4
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:51 am Post subject: Haydn in auditions: which horn? |
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Hi everyone!
TL; DR: Is it acceptable to play the Haydn on a B flat horn for the screened first round in an audition?
Long version:
I am currently preparing for two auditions, one is for an "as needed" position in an US Orchestra, the other for a principal position in Europe. Both auditions require the Haydn in the preliminary round, with the European audition specifying it has to be played on a B flat trumpet. Since I am honestly more familiar with the piece on a B flat, having taken already other similar auditions, and would avoid preparing the same piece on two different horns at the same time, do you guys think showing in an audition in the US playing the Haydn on a bigger horn is acceptable?
Thank you! |
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brass crusader Regular Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Posts: 53 Location: New England
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Yes. Play it on what you sound best on and are most confident on. I always played it on Eb, and may have used the Eb for some excerpts, but if you play it best on Bb, go with that. |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2160 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
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One of my former teachers, a member of a US symphony orchestra, once told me that he prefers to play the Haydn on a rotary Bb. |
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andybharms Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 632 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:39 am Post subject: |
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I do think all that has been said is true.... BUT...
In my opinion people can do both. Not as a rule, but as a waypoint on the road to great musicianship. I can point to a lot of evidence of why I believe this. _________________ Andrew Harms, DMA
http://www.andrewbharms.com |
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Nonsense Eliminator Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 5212 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:05 am Post subject: |
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I don't think a committee is likely to care what trumpet you use. In general, most of them won't be trumpet players, so the likelihood is that most of the committee won't have any idea.
They will, however, care how you sound. Consider that most people will be playing E flat trumpets. For most people, playing it on E flat makes it less physically demanding, lighter, cleaner, and more accurate. You probably won't get any brownie points for using B flat, but if it sounds harder or heavier or messier, that is going to count against you. Of course, those may not be issues for you or be outweighed by other benefits (for you) of using the B flat.
Most committees ask for a concerto so they can hear you play music, so... do that. _________________ Richard Sandals
NBO |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Jerry wrote: | One of my former teachers, a member of a US symphony orchestra, once told me that he prefers to play the Haydn on a rotary Bb. |
The Haydn on a rotary Bb is specified on most German/German language-speaking countries' audition lists.
The difference between the piece on Eb (piston), piston Bb, or rotary Bb is rather extreme, but each offer the performer a different lens for this idiosyncratic masterwork. Thankfully, I've never seen a requirement to play it on keyed trumpet, though I know a few players who are soprano cornet enthusiasts and have given convincing performances of the piece on that instrument - definitely 'sweeter' sounding than the historically-correct keyed trumpet, but by no means more unusual, or futher away from its sound than an Eb piston trumpet.
Sound your best, let the confidence from your equipment choice influence your performances, and communicate your very best music - good luck!
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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MrClean Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 2734 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | I don't think a committee is likely to care what trumpet you use. In general, most of them won't be trumpet players, so the likelihood is that most of the committee won't have any idea.
They will, however, care how you sound. Consider that most people will be playing E flat trumpets. For most people, playing it on E flat makes it less physically demanding, lighter, cleaner, and more accurate. You probably won't get any brownie points for using B flat, but if it sounds harder or heavier or messier, that is going to count against you. Of course, those may not be issues for you or be outweighed by other benefits (for you) of using the B flat.
Most committees ask for a concerto so they can hear you play music, so... do that. |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________ Jim Wilt
LA Philharmonic
Colburn School |
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alber_trp New Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2017 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for the replies! This is great.
Right now I am considering pros and cons of the situation. Although I am more inclined to just prepare the piece on the same horn because of the practical side of it, there is also other things involved. The audition in Europe will be accompanied, while the US one won't. That means I have to prepare an A=440 and an A=442 Haydn, which could mess me up if trying to do both at the same time on the same horn.
Anybody has ever incurred in that situation before? |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2662 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:30 am Post subject: |
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alber_trp wrote: |
Anybody has ever incurred in that situation before? |
Not exactly, but I spend some time living with a piano that was a 1/4 tone flat. I was studying baroque performance and used the piano as a pitch reference, at a 1/4 tone... I had to use my ear, but it wasn't too hard.
Playing a lot of modern works with microtones probably helped, too.
Also, my orchestra, like so many are absolutely convinced they must play at A=440. By getting my oboist to tune them at A = 442 we realised far better ensemble pitch and intonation. AND, they all liked it more.
One day, I'll tell them!
The thing to do is use your ears and go with what you hear.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Nonsense Eliminator Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 5212 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps I'm missing something, but for me the difference between 440 and 442 is where I put my tuning slide. Or else which section of the orchestra I'm playing with at that moment... _________________ Richard Sandals
NBO |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1885
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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I walked in to a lesson with Mr. Vacchiano and the first thing he said was, "I just made a discovery. The Haydn on the D flat trumpet!" It actually makes sense. It puts you into the key of D on the 1st and 3rd movements, and in G on the second. How do you get a D flat trumpet? Easy, you take your D trumpet and pull out the slides. If you have a Schilke tuning bell Eb/D, then just pull out the bell and adjust the slides.
After that lesson, it was never mentioned again.
Just remember, you heard it first on the TH. |
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trumpetman7984 Regular Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2017 Posts: 54 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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I've played it on both for auditions and it just depends on what you're more comfortable with. I've played it on Eb trumpet in classical auditions and I once had a jazz audition where out of the blue they told me to play the Haydn, so I had to play it on Bb trumpet on the spot. _________________ Schilke B1 Bb
Yamaha 8445 C |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:40 am Post subject: |
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alber_trp wrote: | Thank you all for the replies! This is great.
Right now I am considering pros and cons of the situation. Although I am more inclined to just prepare the piece on the same horn because of the practical side of it, there is also other things involved. The audition in Europe will be accompanied, while the US one won't. That means I have to prepare an A=440 and an A=442 Haydn, which could mess me up if trying to do both at the same time on the same horn.
Anybody has ever incurred in that situation before? |
For a reference. A=442 is only ~8cents sharper than A=440. The difference we're talking about is 1/12th of a semitone / half-step.
Pretty sure you're way over thinking it.
Also, I don't see how preparing it on two separate horns would fix this.
Also, if you do prepare it on two trumpets, realise that you are essentially cutting your practice time of the piece on either horn in half. If you can do it on one trumpet, that makes the most sense to me in terms of being the most polished |
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