Brand loyalty?

[AwesomeDad]

Guys and gals just curious when you are looking to upgrade or for something different do you tend to stay with a certain manufacturer?
I only ask because 30 years ago when I started playing there really was only a handful of trusted brands.
Now while researching options there's a ton of choices and all seem very well made with a great sound.
Now I know there are lemons out there and play testing is a must but when your shopping what is your go to starting point? (No brand bashing)

JJ

[TKSop]

For me, it's Eclipse.

Not because they're miles better than anything else out there (except the sop, but I'm very biased having been part of the development group) - they're up there with the best, but what makes me go to Leigh first is that he knows my playing, he knows what I like and he's able to get very close to what I'm after almost straight away... that plus a damned good ear and the honesty to tell me if he thinks something doesn't suit me.

Ofcourse, it helps that I can just go to the workshop deal with the man himself.


I think in many ways what I'm saying here applies to most brands - it's not necessarily the brand itself, it's being able to get yourself to the right models quickly (whether that's research on our part or having a trader who knows it already and does a good job helping) and having someone give you high quality and honest feedback on what you're testing.

[dstdenis]

I don't try to stick with one manufacturer. I evaluate each make/model on its own merits. I start by drawing up a list of features I want, then I find out which makes/models have those features, then I try to find recordings/demos for an initial evaluation, then I try to find a way to play-test the contenders, if possible. (If not, I want a trial period.)
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[AwesomeDad]

[LittleRusty]

I think it partially depends on what stage the person needing the instrument is and who they are playing with.

Some colleges prefer their students use certain brands. In high school some teachers are the same.

As to a ton of choices, I don't think there really are. Many of the choices are poorly made instruments that are sold under many brand names. Some of these have evolved into more respected brands, such as Jupiter or Carol Brass.

Then you have the boutique and high-end brands. These are fine instruments but often more expensive and more difficult to try before you buy.

Then there are the mainstream brands. Bach, Yamaha, Schilke, Getzen, etc. These have been around for quite a while, even 30 years ago.

[Brad361]

[dstdenis]

[LittleRusty]

One other point. When I was in high school 40 some years ago the only brands I knew were the ones my fellow students had and the ones in the stores in my area.

We now have the internet which allows us to find almost all of the brands. Many of which are no longer manufactured, but discussed ad nauseam.

[AwesomeDad]

[shofarguy]

I have always been one of those people that wants to connect with the things in my hands. Trumpets, hand tools, cameras..., I rarely choose the popular brand unless I connect with it, like a Skill Model 77 worm drive circular saw.

Back when I was looking for a silver trumpet to play in marching band my senior year, I passed on Bach and chose Benge. It had a look and feel I liked. It was "the other brand" which nobody but me and one other player chose.

Now, I find that Kanstul-built horns have a feel that is familiar and comfortable to me. I've made friends with the people at the factory and that makes my experience even more of a value. Add Flip Oakes and his horns on top of that and I can think of no reason to look elsewhere. But, I have.

I used to own a really good Schilke X-4. It was really, really good. I just never got excited playing it like I do my Wild Thing. When I needed to find some cash, I sold it to a pastor on the east coast. He loves it, so I'm happy as a colonial clam.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[AwesomeDad]

[dershem]

The last time I had the money and the need to shop for a horn, I wangled a pass to NAMM, and tried everything available. Didn't care about labels, just about performance. Some brands did very well, and had a bunch of horns that were very nice, other brands got all of their entries crossed off of the list immediately.
And I came out of it with a narrowed list of makers I'll look at if I ever again need a new horn. Some won't make the cut. But the list, while short, is not yet at one name.
Only one guy makes my mouthpieces, but horns ... there's still elbow room.

[p76]

Think dershem might have nailed it - it's more a case of some brands that I don't get on with, rather than only one I'd use to exclusion of others.

For me, I've always struggled with Bach horns - yet to meet one I like.

A good resource for those of us who live far away from NAMM, or even well-stocked stores, is good ol' TH. With judicious searching, you can read posts from members who seem to have similar tastes in horns to you, and similar requirements of a horn, and see what they are playing/like.

That's what led me to my Kanstul 1001, and it's every bit as good as I thought it might be. That's led me on to some more Kanstul horns... and so on.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[LittleRusty]

I personally am not sure that one can easily sort the wheat from the chaff on here. There are some posters I believe each and every time. And then there are those that I question each time. And then there are the rest of us.

For instance, the high school student who always jumped in with leadpipe advice. He always seemed to have personal experience, with a large number of leadpipes. How he got access was always on my mind.

But perhaps he was a very accomplished player and had access. Hard to tell.

[p76]

True, but if you get enough people who you're not necessarily sure about confirming things you've read from people you are sure about, it might be worth a punt.

In my case, here in OZ, a Kanstul is a rare horn, so I pretty much had to rely on what I read, and TH is a great forum with lots of data going back a long time. Reading posts on what reader felt the horns were similar to, how they liked to play them etc. gave me a feel that a Chicago 1001 might be a good horn for me, enough so that when one popped up on Ebay Aus, I felt confident enough to go for it - the fact that it came with a Kanstul flug, all for less half the cost of a new 1001, was a bonus.

It's a risk, but sometimes you have to take a risk to do well.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[Grits Burgh]

I'm not one of those accomplished players who can capitalize on the subtle nuances between trumpets. Reading the many posts on TH about different brands peaked my curiosity - to the point that I decided to buy a Schilke HC1 just to have something different from my Bach Strad. These two horns are different, but for me, the differences aren't as great as I had expected. It seems to me that the player and mouthpiece have a greater impact on the sound than the trumpet.

Then, I discovered Rich Ita's shop in Atlanta. He has a veritable museum of constantly changing trumpets, flugelhorns and cornets. It is always a treat to go play them. There are some horns that really appealed to me (Lawler 7, Shires Destino III and King Silver Flare. among others). The appeal wasn't associated with any particular brand. It was more or less just a subjective connection with the way a particular horn feels, responds and sounds.

So, in my case, the brand of a horn does not seem to correlate with my preference. You just need to try a horn and decide whether or not you connect with it.

But then, I'm strictly a hacker.

Warm regards,
Grits
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy.

[Bucaneer61]

When I was in HS & college many, many years ago, I hated Conn horns. One of my classmates had a Connstellation that I could never get to sound like I wanted it to. I played my uncle's old Martin Handcraft Imperial until I found Selmer in college. Selmer Paris horns (K-Modified, DeVille and Radial) and never looked back. Then my lovely wife gifted me with a 1925 Conn 28B for our anniversary a few years ago and I was amazed. Great horn! Still looks great and plays very well. I still have my Selmers, but the Conn is definitely a go-to horn as a back-up.

Michael
_________________
Selmer Radial Bb ML - Jan., 1972
Selmer Radial C XL - Jan., 1972
Getzen 580S cornet - c. 1973
Blessing Artist Flugelhorn, rose brass bell
Accent Picc by B & S
Conn 28B Concert Grand Bb - 1925
Martin Handcraft Imperial - 1937

[Dennis78]

Personally I'm pretty hung up on Holton trumpets and cornets. Why? It's the majority of all I've ever owned and played. I feel like I can trust my expectations will be met with another Holton
_________________
a few different ones

[homecookin]

I also have had very good experiences with Holton trumpets.
My first trumpet that my Dad bought me in 1960,
was a Holton Stratodyne.
I still have that trumpet and use it on a regular basis,
although I have had some work done to it.
I have had the bell replaced with another Holton bell, the original
bell was damaged.
And the lead pipe was
replaced with a lightweight Bach 43 lead pipe,
the original lead pipe was damaged.
it is a great playing horn.
I also have a Holton St 308S
Maynard Ferguson model, which was made
at the old Holton plant in Elkhorn Wisconsin.
It has a standard weight bell that is comparable
to a Bach 37 standard weight bell.
I also have a Holton St 307S Maynard Ferguson
model, that was made at the Bach plant in Elkhart Indiana.
It has a lightweight bell, and is a great playing horn.
I had a Bach lightweight 43 bell model trumpet that I played
on for almost 30 years.
It was my money horn for all those years.
Both of the HOLTON trumpets that
I have play every bit as well as any Bach trumpet I
have ever played.

[Louise Finch]

Hi

To add another perspective to this discussion rather than trying to derail this thread, I truly think that another consideration is how well you have fine tuned your overall set-up, including your mouthpiece choice and specifically your mouthpiece gap.

When play testing and comparing different reputable makes/models of cornets, factors such as a too far from ideal mouthpiece gap can in my opinion lead to a what could be a great trumpet for you, being discarded, because it does not play as well for you as it could.

If I was in a position to play test loads of trumpets, personally I would take my mouthpiece cut for sleeves with me. Obviously it wouldn't be practical to try to dial in the gap on every trumpet I tried, but having three sleeves with me, one that gaps a moderate amount, one that gives a significantly larger gap and one that gives a significantly smaller gap (I realise that there would be a cost aspect to acquiring these), would enable you to ascertain whether a horn that seems stuffy would open up nicely with a smaller gap etc.

I have a mid 1950s student/mid range Boosey and Hawkes trumpet which goes from mediocre and a bit on the stuffy side to a great player, when set up ultimately for me.

Just something else to think about.

Another consideration for me is reliable valves. A significant reason for me playing a Yamaha trumpet and Yamaha cornet, is that I personally find modern Yamaha valves to not give me any trouble. No doubt some others will find them problematic, and they don't have the reputation of Getzen valves, but after years of valve issues with my Bach 37 trumpet, and previously far less severe valve issues with my Bach 184ML cornet, I like how I don't have to worry about sticking valves.

As I've become more experienced as a player, I've found that subtle differences between one horn and another are outweighed by building consistency on one reliable instrument that I like. What I mean is that I have previously owned three Besson Sovereign cornets, because I prefer my sound on them to my Yamaha Xeno. However I don't like playing the Sovereign and love playing the Xeno. Since nobody will get to hear a comparison of me playing each, I've stuck with the Xeno, a cornet that I enjoy playing, which gives me a further incentive over motivation alone to practice, and a cornet on which I feel confident performing.

To get to my long point, I believe that great players play and sound great on any reliable well build instrument, and it is simply a case of choosing a brand that suits you and you like, dialling in your set-up to best suit you, and putting in good consistent practice.

I wouldn't think that it would ultimately matter if a player chose Bach, Yamaha, Getzen or Kanstul, just to name a few of the popular brands, and that what would be important would be a good match between player, instrument and mouthpiece, and a set-up that the player enjoys playing and can play their best on.

Just my 2p worth.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs