• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Yamaha Hagstrom and Curry 3BC and 3B mouthieces--and Bach 1c


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Mouthpieces
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
The_Kitchen_Sink
Regular Member


Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject: Yamaha Hagstrom and Curry 3BC and 3B mouthieces--and Bach 1c Reply with quote

Has anyone compared the Yamaha Hagstrom to a Curry BC cup? I do like how my Hagstrom plays in my C and Bach Bb, but I hate it in my Olds Studio Bb (which is actually a really fun horn).

After intense playing with my Bach 1c (which is probably too big but yields the best sound coupled with wretched endurance), the Hagstrom becomes more difficult to play. It isn't as extreme as not being able to buzz with a Bach 7 after playing the 1c too long, but things get more difficult and begin to sound worse.

I'm wondering if a Curry 3BC delivers some of the strengths found in the Hagstrom, especially a similar orchestral sound while using a piece with a smaller rim. I'm also curious if switching to a Curry 3B on my Bbs might help me keep the sound I need while reducing lip swelling and fatigue. Staying on the same size rim for everything seems like a good thing for me. If a Curry 3BC is anything like my Hagstrom (and a Curry 3b can deliver something similar to or better than the sound of a Bach 1c), then dropping $120 for a Curry 3b and Curry 3bc will probably be worth it.

I play mostly at work with my band and orchestra kids, at church, with wind bands, and at church gigs. I just feel like I'm working too hard and falling short too much for the benefits of the 1c. (I cut glass with a Bach 3c, so it's out.)

Thanks for any thoughts, comments, or comparison knowledge of those pieces.
_________________
1971-72 Bach Strad 37 ML Bb
1961-62 Olds Studio Bb
1972-73 Getzen Eterna ML C
1982-83 Selmer C700 ML C
1947-ish Reynolds "Professional" Cornet
1975-ish Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Mark Curry 5 Rims
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaferis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1245
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a direct comparison for you only my experience with Curry's 3BC vs. 3B..
Having moved to Curry standard 3 rim(s) having the same endurance, consitency, and comfort issues from my beloved Bach 1.5 C (25 throat/Schmidt backbore).

Simply I find the 3BC to have a great sound and the rim shape is what I like in Curry but has some of the same issues that I'm trying to get away from - basically lack of strength and accuracy above the staff with decreased edurance.

Using a Curry 3B is, for me, the solution on my Bb when I want a fuller tone for those broad Orchestral settings. 3C is my "daily use" mouthpiece.. and for my large bore C a Curry 3C with an opened throat is my happy place right now.
_________________
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Free-lance performer/Educator
retired Air Force Bandsman
Bach's & Curry 3's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Turkle
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 1735
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own the Curry 3BC. and I personally feel that the backbore is too wide for a Bb trumpet - it sounds "tubby." Amazing for C trumpet, however.

I also have a Curry 3B. and don't love it. But it is bowl-shaped like a 3C so maybe it would be a good fit for you if you're too bright on the 3C.
_________________
'08 Yamaha 8310zs
'62 Connstellation 38B
'64 Connstellation 38A
'94 Bach Strad Bb L 25
'72 Bach Strad Bb ML 37
'72 Bach Strad CML 239
'?? Yamaha YFH-231 Flugel
'38 King Master Cornet
Curry 3.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The_Kitchen_Sink
Regular Member


Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick responses!

Zaferis: Do you find you sound different on a Curry 3c than on a Bach 3c?
Turkle: What is it that you don't love about the 3b?

I quite like my sound on a 1c on the Bb horns I use the most, and I'm hoping to retain as much of that sound as possible through a switch. Are the curry 3b cups similar to the Bach 1c cup in sound produced since the Curry 3b is just a slightly deeper Curry 3c and the Bach 3c is their most shallow c cup?
_________________
1971-72 Bach Strad 37 ML Bb
1961-62 Olds Studio Bb
1972-73 Getzen Eterna ML C
1982-83 Selmer C700 ML C
1947-ish Reynolds "Professional" Cornet
1975-ish Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Mark Curry 5 Rims
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richard III
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1408
Location: Amador County, CA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another vote against a Curry B cup. The rim is too rounded and everything suffers. The BC however, works great on everything. I don't like C cups. Too shallow and bright sounding and the flat bottom just makes the response off.
_________________
Richard

Holton H378 French Horn
Adams F1 Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 8879
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Here's another vote against a Curry B cup. The rim is too rounded and everything suffers. The BC however, works great on everything. I don't like C cups. Too shallow and bright sounding and the flat bottom just makes the response off.


The rims of the B and BC cups are identical within any number size range. Example: a Curry 3B. and a Curry 3BC. have the same rim shape, diameter, and thickness. From Mark's website:

Quote:
Engineered like no other mouthpiece, the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter. This feature gives you the freedom to select the right cup for the job without having to get used to a different rim.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Turkle
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 1735
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Kitchen_Sink wrote:

Turkle: What is it that you don't love about the 3b?

Are the curry 3b cups similar to the Bach 1c cup in sound produced since the Curry 3b is just a slightly deeper Curry 3c and the Bach 3c is their most shallow c cup?


I don't have a Bach 1C so I can't compare. I thought the Curry 3B was more difficult to play in the high register without sounding so much better. But I have a naturally darker sound so I enjoy the 3C. If you have a naturally bright sound the 3B could be a great fit! Different mouthpieces for different folks.

From your comments, it seems you enjoy playing on deeper mouthpieces, so with that in mind you may like the 3B a lot.

Worth noting: Curry BC cups are more funnel shaped, while Curry B cups are bowl shaped, so there is a big difference in how they play. The BC has a huge backbore, and the B has a slightly smaller one, which makes it better for Bb trumpets (in my opinion).

I do sometimes use the 3B when I'm jamming on my Bach 37 because it sounds good in that horn.

And finally, Curry mouthpieces (particularly the very popular 3. rim) sell quickly in the marketplace, so if you don't like them you would probably be able to sell them very quickly for most of your original investment.

Good luck! I love my Curry mouthpieces! I have almost every one made in the 3. rim.
_________________
'08 Yamaha 8310zs
'62 Connstellation 38B
'64 Connstellation 38A
'94 Bach Strad Bb L 25
'72 Bach Strad Bb ML 37
'72 Bach Strad CML 239
'?? Yamaha YFH-231 Flugel
'38 King Master Cornet
Curry 3.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaferis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1245
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Kitchen_Sink wrote:
Thanks for the quick responses!

Zaferis: Do you find you sound different on a Curry 3c than on a Bach 3c?


Curry's 3C is not as bright as a Bach 3C. Closer to a Bach 1.5..

not to brag, but I've made my career around a big fat sound, and have no loss of that moving from the larger Bach mouthpieces to a Curry 3C. If I'm in a situation where I'm playing the low parts or what to warm up the sound a bit more - that's when I pull out the 3B (i.e. Prayer of St Gregory in a Church setting or hymns where the choir/organ are on the soft side)

I find (feel) little to no difference between all of the 3 rims that Curry makes - one of the many reasons that I use them.
_________________
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Free-lance performer/Educator
retired Air Force Bandsman
Bach's & Curry 3's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 8617
Location: Heart of Dixie

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched from a Bach 3C to a Curry 3C. a few years ago and it's so much better (for me) than the Bach. Much better sound and very comfortable. I also have a Curry 3B., which has a slightly richer sound then the 3C., but my endurance suffers a bit with the deeper cup. Before buying the Curry 3B. mouthpiece, I talked to Mark about his 3BC. and it sounded too much like the Bach 3B, which I used to own but didn't like at all - it sounded great but sucked the life out of me.

I play the Curry 3C. 95% of the time (it's a terrific all-around mouthpiece), and use the 3B. occasionally for music that dwells in the low register or needs a really mellow sound.
_________________
Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.com

"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richard III
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1408
Location: Amador County, CA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Here's another vote against a Curry B cup. The rim is too rounded and everything suffers. The BC however, works great on everything. I don't like C cups. Too shallow and bright sounding and the flat bottom just makes the response off.


The rims of the B and BC cups are identical within any number size range. Example: a Curry 3B. and a Curry 3BC. have the same rim shape, diameter, and thickness. From Mark's website:

Quote:
Engineered like no other mouthpiece, the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter. This feature gives you the freedom to select the right cup for the job without having to get used to a different rim.


The B has a B cup rim and the BC has a C cup rim with a B cup under.
_________________
Richard

Holton H378 French Horn
Adams F1 Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Vin DiBona
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 899
Location: OHare area

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not see anywhere on the Curry site that the rim is different on the B cup.
That would defeat the purpose of his lines.
Is this from personal experience?
Just curious.
R. Tomasek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Richard III
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1408
Location: Amador County, CA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He used to have the description. I haven't looked at his site in a long time. The BC was a C rim on a B cup with a 24 bore. I've had a few over the years and yes, that is what they feel like to me. The B rim is rounder on the inside with less of a drop off AKA higher alpha angle. They feel good the first time but I don't like that rim style. So for me, the BC is the best of both worlds since I don't like the sound or response of C cups and I like a more open bore.

Went to Curry site:

BC Cup: The BC, or "Chicago" cup is actually a 1-piece version of the C rim combined with the Bach-style B cup. Excellent for orchestral work.
_________________
Richard

Holton H378 French Horn
Adams F1 Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
The_Kitchen_Sink
Regular Member


Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From this post and reading a few others, it sounds like just buying about four or five different curry 3-rim pieces is the thing to do!

Safaris are expensive. Hopefully it is the right time to change mouthpieces, and I'm not just being impatient.
_________________
1971-72 Bach Strad 37 ML Bb
1961-62 Olds Studio Bb
1972-73 Getzen Eterna ML C
1982-83 Selmer C700 ML C
1947-ish Reynolds "Professional" Cornet
1975-ish Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Mark Curry 5 Rims
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TKSop
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1073
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
The BC was a C rim on a B cup with a 24 bore.


Correct... Because all Curry models have a C-cup rim and alpha.

Quote:
The B rim is rounder on the inside with less of a drop off AKA higher alpha angle. .


Wrong.

They have exactly the same rim and alpha... Although if you had a lot of lip intrusion, you might feel that the BC is higher because of the shape, there - the B cup is like a deeper C cup, if the 3C is like a good 3C, then the 3B is more like a 3C rim on a 1C cup (ie: a deeper C cup but otherwise the same).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tpt_Guy
Veteran Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 422
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
Richard III wrote:
The BC was a C rim on a B cup with a 24 bore.


Correct... Because all Curry models have a C-cup rim and alpha.


Where does it say on his website that all models have a C-cup rim and alpha?

The only model I find on his website that he describes as having a C rim is the BC line.

Otherwise, he simply states that "the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter."
_________________
-Tom Hall-
Bach 37 B flat
Benge 8Z Bb Cornet
Bach 239 C w/Akright Leadpipe
Stomvi Piccolo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TKSop
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1073
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tpt_Guy wrote:
TKSop wrote:
Richard III wrote:
The BC was a C rim on a B cup with a 24 bore.


Correct... Because all Curry models have a C-cup rim and alpha.


Where does it say on his website that all models have a C-cup rim and alpha?


It doesn't as far as I can recall, but it's certainly the case that they have the C-cup rim - the alpha I know is the same on the C and BC and IIRC only a fraction lower on the B (apologies for the unclear statement was half asleep when I wrote it).

IIRC he may've posted it on here back when he used to post

Quote:
The only model I find on his website that he describes as having a C rim is the BC line.

Otherwise, he simply states that "the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter."


True enough, but the standard line is the rims with approximate Bach numbers, on all the standard cups (including BC) so logically each numbered rim must be based on the C-cup of each model.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaferis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1245
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Kitchen_Sink wrote:
From this post and reading a few others, it sounds like just buying about four or five different curry 3-rim pieces is the thing to do!

Safaris are expensive. Hopefully it is the right time to change mouthpieces, and I'm not just being impatient.


Curry's are still inexpensive - you can get 3 or 4 of them for the price of 1 of the others.
Start with a 3C and branch out
_________________
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Free-lance performer/Educator
retired Air Force Bandsman
Bach's & Curry 3's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richard III
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1408
Location: Amador County, CA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to turn this into a Darryl vs. John thing.

Quote:
the alpha I know is the same on the C and BC and IIRC only a fraction lower on the B


That's the opposite of true. The B rim has a higher alpha angle. From GR's site and the reason I like lower alpha angles:

Quote:
The lower the Alpha Angle, the greater the lip room will be in the first cup.


From GR's site and the reason I don't like higher alpha angles:

Quote:
If two mouthpieces are the exact same diameter, the one with the higher alpha angle may feel smaller.


Quote:
if the alpha angle is just too high for you, you could experience lack of control, high blow resistance because the chops are being held too closed, poor articulations, intonation may suffer, thin sound, your chops could feel like they are "thinning out", and you could actually "bottom out" stopping vibrations completely.


I have found all of this to be true. The beauty of the BC is that I get the deeper and more sonorous sound of the B cup and open bore with the room and feel of the C rim.
_________________
Richard

Holton H378 French Horn
Adams F1 Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
The_Kitchen_Sink
Regular Member


Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to call to ask for some clarification directly from Mr. Curry, but his website says that isn't possible. Oh well.

If you don't buy them from someone here in the marketplace, is there a reliable place you prefer to use for Curry mouthpieces? We don't have a dealer near where I live. Since the Curry 3c is bigger sounding than a Bach 3c, I guess I'll start there. I know I won't be able to use it on my Olds Studio, though. Maybe the TC cup would work well for it. (I love working technical studies and whatnot with that horn, but it is amazingly bright when pushed.)

I'll stick with my Hagstrom with my C trumpet since it works well. If I like the 3 rim, then it may be time to order the 3bc.

Has anyone directly compared a Yamaha Hagstrom to a Curry BC cup?

Thanks for the help, everyone.
_________________
1971-72 Bach Strad 37 ML Bb
1961-62 Olds Studio Bb
1972-73 Getzen Eterna ML C
1982-83 Selmer C700 ML C
1947-ish Reynolds "Professional" Cornet
1975-ish Yamaha 631 Flugelhorn
Mark Curry 5 Rims
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jaysonr
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 707
Location: Wake Forest, NC

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like others have said, the rims of the Curry 3B and 3BC are identical. I've had both at the same time, the only difference is the cup, which is more bowl-shaped on the 3B. I'm not sure what Richard III is feeling, but if you email Mark I'm sure he'll tell you the same as his website, and others here have stated.

To answer your original question, I do think if you like a 1C, you'll like the 3B, as it'll be a more similar cup.

If you want to move away from Curry, a Schilke Symphony M3 or M3C (depending on if you want a 24/24 or 27 throat w/ tighter "C" backbore) will also be similar.

Another inexpensive option to try is a Yamaha 14C4 and 14D4

Good luck on your quest!
_________________
Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Mouthpieces All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group