• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Question for those who've been challenged in Big Bands.


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Lounge
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
...and while you're warming up before your rehearsal, make it obvious to everyone in the room that you are better in all aspects then anyone else.


I absolutely hate people who do this. The only obvious thing I learn when someone does this is that they have no social skills.

The rest of the post I agree with, but warm ups are not the time to show off. Prove how good you are in the practice by nailing your part every time and in challenges.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
homebilly
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2010
Posts: 2192
Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

call Jeff Gillooly

he'll know what to do .........
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7769
Location: Des Moines, IA area

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Craig Swartz wrote:
...and while you're warming up before your rehearsal, make it obvious to everyone in the room that you are better in all aspects then anyone else.


I absolutely hate people who do this. The only obvious thing I learn when someone does this is that they have no social skills.

The rest of the post I agree with, but warm ups are not the time to show off. Prove how good you are in the practice by nailing your part every time and in challenges.
I don't think one is showing off necessarily, what should one do- hold back or warm up with a practice mute? (I do know people who do this...) I'm not advocating anything out of the ordinary, but if you don't have the lead chair in the first place (or the solo one) it's pretty tough to let others know you have any better chops or ability than the one already there, particularly in HS, where this scenario is playing out. As I said in my post, in the real world after HS things will be much different. Take my post in the context in which it was intended- we're not talking community, semi pro or better "big band" here...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
Craig Swartz wrote:
...and while you're warming up before your rehearsal, make it obvious to everyone in the room that you are better in all aspects then anyone else.


I absolutely hate people who do this. The only obvious thing I learn when someone does this is that they have no social skills.

The rest of the post I agree with, but warm ups are not the time to show off, especially in high school. Prove how good you are in the practice by nailing your part every time and in challenges.
I don't think one is showing off necessarily, what should one do- hold back or warm up with a practice mute? (I do know people who do this...) I'm not advocating anything out of the ordinary, but if you don't have the lead chair in the first place (or the solo one) it's pretty tough to let others know you have any better chops or ability than the one already there, particularly in HS, where this scenario is playing out. As I said in my post, in the real world after HS things will be much different. Take my post in the context in which it was intended- we're not talking community, semi pro or better "big band" here...

I fixed my post.

Warmups are not auditions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ZardiChar
Regular Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2017
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update on this whole thing. This had gotten deleted earlier, so it won't be as detailed. After the Challenge had occurred, it had seemed my instructor had no idea how this would work, as it being the first in 5 years and him not going the criteria to be graded along the paper. He had us go into a storage room and the people voted. Out of the 14 there I believe. Only 12 voted. Keep this in mind.
I had the upper hand as my Lead player had cracked under pressure and didn't practice, while I had been practicing and focusing every single ounce of my free time into listening to many players, specifically Dizzie, Miles, and Roy Hargrove. The challenge was on two sections of the Piece "Madrid", by Erik Morales. I worked specifically on one section and not the latter, as that could halt my progress with the high notes if I had worked on that too often. So I decided that by in Trusting in my skills, listening to the song as many times as i could and in my sleep I could get away with not practicing the fast version as much time.



The Lead Cracks and Chokes, missing notes, articulation, dynamics. This was just a bad day for them, to the point where I felt bad, as I realized half of the band had hated me for this. The Challenge ends in a tie.


EDIT: Now the Reason this resulted in a tie in included 2 factors.
A: Not Practicing the Second Section enough. In fear of overblwojng during practice,I felt if I listened to it enough hand practiced it not as often I could trust my skills to get the job done.
B: People ignoring the rules and not voting due to being sympathetic.


The irony is that since I myself choked on the second part, despite all the advantages I had (remaining calm, actually practicing,etc.) I would have won if I spent more time on the second part. Specifically one of people who hadn't voted knew I was "Person A" and didn't want the lead to lose their spot because they felt the challenge tore them apart.

That being said, many will say it's no use fighting for this in the long run. However In my option I've been working extremely hard for Lead for years, and it hurts I was cut short unknowingly and out of place. I will explain this later. Maybe I could give this thing a year rest and something else could happen in band camp next year. I don't know. But what I do know is that I'll find a way.


Last edited by ZardiChar on Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:30 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1459
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZardiChar wrote:
Update on this whole thing. This had gotten deleted earlier, so it won't be as detailed. After the Challenge had occurred, it had seemed my instructor had no idea how this would work, as it being the first in 5 years and him not going the criteria to be graded along the paper. He had us go into a storage room and the people voted. Out of the 14 there I believe. Only 12 voted. Keep this in mind.
I had the upper hand as my Lead player had cracked under pressure and didn't practice, while I had been practicing and focusing every single ounce of my free time into listening to many players, specifically Dizzie, Miles, and Roy Hargrove. The challenge was on two sections of the Piece "Madrid", by Erik Morales. I worked specifically on one section and not the latter, as that could halt my progress with the high notes if I had worked on that too often. So I decided that by in Trusting in my skills, listening to the song as many times as i could and in my sleep I could get away with not practicing the fast version as much time.


The Lead Cracks and Chokes, missing notes, articulation, dynamics. This was just a bad day for them, to the point where I felt bad, as I realized half of the band had hated me for this. The Challenge ends in a tie.


"This was just a bad day for them, to the point where I felt bad, as I realized half of the band had hated me for this. "

Sometimes the better way is to do what you did to boost your chances to victory: practice practice, listen listen - and stay with that. Then you´ve set the ball in motion, sooner or later you´ll get rewarded. Obviously you seem to handle stress well and that´s an asset in the business! Also - I do appreciate your candidness - to update us all - brave!
I specifically warned you for what might happen socially - and so it did.
There´s an old tune "Ain´t what you do, is how you do it" - in this case more diplomacy should have been at the fore.
What you describe sounds like a day at the Gladiator arena, and not the brothers Marx version.
Done is done so what do we learn from this? Next time? So go on practicing, be the nice guy you are, life is long....and as someone here on the TH writes "remember this is supposed to be fun"!
Good luck&keep on practicing!
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5461
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZardiChar wrote:
Update on this whole thing. This had gotten deleted earlier, so it won't be as detailed. After the Challenge had occurred, it had seemed my instructor had no idea how this would work, as it being the first in 5 years and him not going the criteria to be graded along the paper. He had us go into a storage room and the people voted. Out of the 14 there I believe. Only 12 voted. Keep this in mind.
I had the upper hand as my Lead player had cracked under pressure and didn't practice, while I had been practicing and focusing every single ounce of my free time into listening to many players, specifically Dizzie, Miles, and Roy Hargrove. The challenge was on two sections of the Piece "Madrid", by Erik Morales. I worked specifically on one section and not the latter, as that could halt my progress with the high notes if I had worked on that too often. So I decided that by in Trusting in my skills, listening to the song as many times as i could and in my sleep I could get away with not practicing the fast version as much time.


The Lead Cracks and Chokes, missing notes, articulation, dynamics. This was just a bad day for them, to the point where I felt bad, as I realized half of the band had hated me for this. The Challenge ends in a tie.


Hi ZardiChar

Thank you for the update. I'm not surprised that this didn't make you very popular. If you don't mind me pointing this out to you, you say that the lead cracks and chokes, misses notes, articulations and dynamics and is generally having a bad day, but the challenge still ends in a tie. Why if he played so badly did the challenge end in a tie?

I think that there are three possibilities:

1. Although you noticed all these mistakes in his playing, you made equivalent mistakes in yours (I'm not saying that you did, only suggesting this as a possibility), maybe faults that you don't even know you have, which made the challenge a tie.

2. Even though he made all these mistakes, he still managed to play to a standard which tied with yours, suggesting that when he isn't having a bad day and making all these mistakes, he is a better player than you, since he can tie with you when having a bad day and making loads of mistakes.

3. The final and most likely explanation, is that this lead player is known and respected, and despite cracking under the pressure of the challenge, people know and like his playing and are confident in his ability to get the job done under normal circumstances.

Why am I appearing to give you a hard time? I'm not really. You give the impression if you don't mind me saying, of being young, immature and probably thinking that you are better than you are (this is not an insult, just a suggestion that you may have the confidence of youth). Sure you want the lead spot, but when you are ready for it, it should be the case of finding a band which has a vacancy for a lead player, rather than trying to challenge somebody off their seat! I honestly do not think it is a very nice thing to do, and is rather poor sporting behaviour.

Anyway, what is going to happen now that the challenge was a tie? Are you going to share the lead, or are you going to accept that you didn't win the challenge overall, and to earn back the respect of your band colleagues, stay on second and help the lead? I suggest that the latter will get you further in the long term.

Best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZardiChar
Regular Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2017
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Updated the post furthermore.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TKSop
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1720
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just work on getting better and take the opportunities that present themselves... Whether it's in this band or another one.

Trying to force things causes friction, tension and often makes progress slower rather than faster - in personal playing and personal relationships.

Be smart, be your best and make peace with whatever progress comes from smart and correct practice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lost a challenge in high school in a similar fashion. The other person made sure to say something so his friends could identify him. It can be very discouraging.

Sometimes stuff happens. Perhaps working on the social side would help in the long term.

Another piece of advice is that when you are getting ready for an important performance, which a challenge is, I would put aside excuses, like working on high notes, and make sure I have the songs/passages cold. A few days or weeks wouldn’t make much difference in your high note progress.

Do you have a trumpet instructor? If not they might be able to objectively analyze your needs and help you overcome them.

Good luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the OP: so this "social aspect" is really a big part of playing the lead book, in any organization! To lead, implies that others must follow. This requires more than "just" commanding tone, impeccable style, and consistent rhythm and phrasing that others can follow.

What else is required is not so easy to pinpoint, but the humility to follow the lead player, attempting to match his example, will serve you well! And that extends far beyond the trumpet. In the meantime, enjoy the "solo chair!" It is a very enviable spot.

To everyone else: challenging the chair is a formalized process, and seems to be very much in order here since auditions didn't determine original placement. Weird that the process has gone unused, but has not been removed? Anyway, engaging this process with a good attitude has tremendous overlap with the attitude of an effective section leader. This requires practice, too!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group