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andybharms Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 625 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject: Schilke M1D |
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Hi,
Can someone tell me why the cup of this mouthpiece is apparently completely different from every other C cup? It feels deeper and more C-shaped. Is someone out there a Schilke Symphony Series expert?
Help is appreciated. _________________ Andrew Harms, DMA
http://www.andrewbharms.com |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Could it be that it is a 'D' cup? The M1 is a C cup. Check the Schilke website. |
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andybharms Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 625 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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"D" is the backbore. It has a standard "M" cup, same as the M1. The only difference between the M1 and the M1D is, I believe, the backbore. _________________ Andrew Harms, DMA
http://www.andrewbharms.com |
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ebisson Regular Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Montreal, Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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According to Schilke web site :
M1 - Standard bowl shape “C” cup with a 24 throat and Schmidt backbore. Excellent all around mouthpiece for both C and Bb trumpet.
M1C - Standard bowl shape “C” cup with tighter 27 throat and Schilke C backbore. A wonderful option for the player that desires a balanced, compact feel with more resistance than the M1 model.
M1D - Standard bowl cup with 24 throat and TIGHTER Schmidt backbore. Very good option for either Bb or Eb trumpet playing. |
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andybharms Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 625 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:42 am Post subject: |
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I am aware of what the web site says, thank you.
I am telling you, it is a C cup. It is the SAME C cup as the M1 and M1C. I know that because I have all of them.
I am asking for an EXPERT to weigh in. _________________ Andrew Harms, DMA
http://www.andrewbharms.com |
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trumpet_cop Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 242
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:47 am Post subject: |
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andybharms wrote: |
I am asking for an EXPERT to weigh in. |
Then why not CALL the experts who make them? |
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andybharms Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 625 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: |
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I have, but they can't tell me how it relates to other rim/cup profiles, only other Schilkes. It also took four weeks to get a callback. The next step is scanning/copying. I have actually tried a lot of different things-- I had someone pull two of them apart into a separate rim, cup, and backbore, but the cup contour is different than others of similar measurement. I think it is deeper and more bowl-shaped. Looking for corroboration.
Quote: | hen why not CALL the experts who make them? |
Snide commentary notwithstanding, there are plenty of folks hiding on here who can provide insightful information. Trying to save time and money. _________________ Andrew Harms, DMA
http://www.andrewbharms.com |
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trumpet_cop Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 242
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: |
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andybharms wrote: | I have, but they can't tell me how it relates to other rim/cup profiles, only other Schilkes. It also took four weeks to get a callback. The next step is scanning/copying. I have actually tried a lot of different things-- I had someone pull two of them apart into a separate rim, cup, and backbore, but the cup contour is different than others of similar measurement.
Quote: | hen why not CALL the experts who make them? |
Snide commentary notwithstanding, there are plenty of folks hiding on here who can provide insightful information. Trying to save time and money. |
Mine was no more snide than your overemphasis of wanting an "EXPERT" to chime in when some folks tried their best to help.
So just to be clear: You are curious how the M1D relates to other non-Schilke C shaped mouthpieces, correct? Your first post does seem a little convoluted in what you are looking for.
Who did you have pull them apart? If I may be so bold as to inquire... |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Schilke M1D |
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andybharms wrote: | Hi,
Can someone tell me why the cup of this mouthpiece is apparently completely different from every other C cup? It feels deeper and more C-shaped. Is someone out there a Schilke Symphony Series expert?
Help is appreciated. |
Hi andybharms
Without being pedantic, since you say that the Schilke M1D has the exact same cup as the M1 and M1C, rather than asking why the M1D has a cup which is apparently completely different from any other C cup, are asking why the M1, M1C, M1D and M1* allhave a cup which is apparently completely different from any other C cup?
What about Symphony Series 2, 3, 4 and 5 rims? Are you also saying that the Symphony Series 1 rim models have a cup that is completely different to the Symphony Series models in the smaller diameters?
Sorry, I just wanted to clarify what you are asking, to make it easier for people to respond.
Good luck with solving this.
Best wishes
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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andybharms Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 625 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Osmun.
Actually, you inspired me. I just called Karl Hammond, who I understand was their consultant for the Symphony Series. He recommended a 2ML from his lineup.
I have tried a lot of rim combinations, though. 1C, 1.25C, 1X, 1.5C, Parke 650, 640, Pickett 1.25, Laskey 80C, 75C... none of them match particularly well, and I think it is because of the unique shape of the Schilke M1 cup.
For those unaware, the Schilke Symphony Series 'M' (for medium) all have the same cup shape, scaled to the appropriate size, denoted by the model number (loosely based off of Bach sizes, M1 for medium 1C-ish, M2 for medium 1.5C-ish, etc). The third character, if any, denotes which backbore. I understand it is confusing nomenclature. There is a 'D' series, D for deep, and some other shapes and depths, and there is also a D backbore.
The thing is, the M line is, as the web site says, a bowl-shaped C cup. I believe the closest approximation in Bach-speak is the 1X cup. However, the size does not line up with any combination I have yet tried. I am not sure why that is, and had hoped someone might, although I believe it is deeper with a higher alpha angle, whatever that means. They are good mouthpieces but apparently very confusing if you aren't familiar with the family and nomenclature. Not the kind of thing a quick glance at the web site can solve. _________________ Andrew Harms, DMA
http://www.andrewbharms.com |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hi andybharms
Since Karl Hammond recommended a mouthpiece from his line-up, if you don't mind me asking, does this mean that you are looking for another mouthpiece for some reason, which has the same cup shape as the Schilke Symphony Series models, if so what playing/sound characteristics are you hoping to improve upon in relation to your Schilke M1D, or you only asking for interests sake?
I am not an expert on the Schilke Symphony Series or Schilke mouthpieces in particular. Without quoting the website, all that I can presume is that the cup shape and cup depth are as they are, as balanced with the other mouthpiece characteristics, they give what Schilke consider to be an ideal modern orchestral trumpet sound, which I ascertain from reading the description on the Schilke website, is what Schilke were aiming for with the introduction of this range. Since Schilke were designing a C cup mouthpiece for orchestral playing, I am not surprised that it is a deeper than typical C cups or that it appears to be along the lines of a Bach 1X, only that if this is so, this would make it more of a no letter cup.
I've just re-read your post below, and it appears that you may be looking to change the rim of the M1D, and you are looking for mouthpieces with a rim contour you like, in addition to a shape at the top of the cup, which would be comparable to that of a M1D underpart.
Without appearing to be nosey, if you don't mind explaining why you are asking and what you are looking to do, I believe that someone on here can probably help you to achieve it.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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