Advice on C trumpet for symphony playing

parentologist · Regular Member Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 45

I need to buy my son, Harrison Epstein, who won ITG Jr division in 2017, a C trumpet for playing in Boston Youth Symphony. Any advice would be welcome. We're trying to find him a used one in good condition, with good intonation.

zaferis · Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject:

Congrats! Your son must be working with a teacher to have this success?

Ask that person.

If you ask me, save up and look at a new Bach C180L239 or an AC190. After all it's an instrument that will stay with him for a very long time.
But play test a bunch first - "even out of a bag of hand picked apples, you'll have a preference of which one to eat first."

It's hard to find a choice used instrument - if it's a good one, who would sell it?
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Adjunct Professor
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Retired Air Force Bandsman

zaferis · Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject:

a second thought.

What about borrowing one for the BYSO gig? I had a student that played with the local Youth Symphony Orchestra and was provided a C trumpet by the Orchestra.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

BSO is playing the new Yamaha 9445NYII (with Boston Bell). You might look into Yamaha. The 8445II is worth looking at. The first generation 9445 is one of the best Cs I ever played and they are out there used.

Dayton · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:26 am Post subject:

Congratulations to your son. Is he still studying with Phil Snedecor? If so, Phil would be the best person to ask about the "right" C trumpet for your son.

You're within a few hours of Virtuosity Music and Austin Custom Brass in the Boston area, Josh Landress in NYC, and Dillon Music just out outside of NYC. All of them have a selection of new and used C trumpets that your son could try.

As far as brand/model goes, the most popular in U.S orchestras are Bach and Yamaha. If you find a professional model C trumpet from either brand it is likely a good horn, but each model has unique characteristics and quirks regarding intonation that make them better/worse suited for an individual player.

You'll see Shires, Schilke and Monette ($$$) used in some orchestras as well. There are many other fine professional C trumpets out there as well by Edwards/Getzen, Stomvi, Van Laar, Blackburn, Larson, Powell, Adams...but I'd strongly recommend starting with Bach, Yamaha (and Shires).

Good luck!

Dan in Sydney · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:49 am Post subject:

Proper protocol would be to defer to his teacher and let him or her pick out and obtain an instrument.
As a teacher, it used to irritate me no end when students or their parents would choose an instrument, often pay far too much for it and most of the time it wouldn't be what i would recommend in the first place.
Discuss with his teacher, please!
_________________
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Sydney Symphony (1978-2011)
Lecturer in Trumpet, Australian National University 1990-2010
Bach Artist and Clinician, Soloist
http://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/artist-information/centerstage/artist-roster/daniel-mendelow/

TKSop · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:00 am Post subject:

Dan in Sydney · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:06 am Post subject:

No, not at all...
The teacher, if he of she is a good one, will know their students playing, sit down with them and help them choose one that suits them the best.
The number of times I've done this for and with my students over the years--
Even to the point of blind testing, if the situation calls for it.
Of course we as teachers can choose horns that have the sound characteristics that we prefer, good intonation, response, etc. but ultimately it should be our job and privilege to guide serious students to feel right about their choice.
As an experienced teacher, I would never choose a horn primarily because it felt right to me alone.
_________________
Principal Trumpet,
Sydney Symphony (1978-2011)
Lecturer in Trumpet, Australian National University 1990-2010
Bach Artist and Clinician, Soloist
http://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/artist-information/centerstage/artist-roster/daniel-mendelow/

James Becker · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:15 am Post subject:

If I may throw our hat in the ring.

Though we haven't any used C trumpets at this time we do have a couple of very desirable new C trumpets in stock. Osmun Music has a Bach C180L229H25H http://www.osmun.com/instruments/bach-c-trumpet-blueprinted.html with our exclusive blueprinting service and Schilke HD http://www.osmun.com/instruments/schilke-c3hd-trumpet.html and are similarly priced. Phil Snedicor has played both in our showroom and had favorable things to say about both instruments.

Available for trial and purchase during regular store hours M-F 10 am till 5 pm and Saturdays 10 am till 2 pm. However, this Saturday October 21st we'll have them on display at Longy School of Music http://longy.edu/admissions/trumpet-day-2017/ along our other trumpets and accessories.

If you find a used C trumpet, consider having us perform our blueprinting service to optimize it's play ability, just as we've done on Phil's Bach C trumpet.

I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

TKSop · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:15 am Post subject:

Spot on, and a worthwhile clarification (whether it was my reading, your writing... or both or neither)

Cheers

jhahntpt · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:11 am Post subject:

I had the privilege of judging Harrison at regionals last year. He played so amazingly well!

As others are saying, talk with his teacher but here are my two cents:

The best options are for a Bach 239/25A, 229/25H they can be had under $2000 on here in great shape. They are still seen as the gold standard and most people use Bach C trumpets.

Beyond that, the Yamaha Chicago (though expensive) is amazing.

I also highly recommend Shires, I absolutely love mine and doubt I will ever replace it.
_________________
Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
Piccolo: Yamaha 9830
Flugel: Yamaha 8315G
Cornet: York Eminence

Jerry · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:33 am Post subject:

I'm going to same something extreme. Please don't take it the wrong way. It is not intended to be insulting. It is intended to be helpful.

Stop. Do not buy your son a C trumpet without his teacher playing an active role in the purchase process. Have the teacher go with your son to pick out an appropriate instrument. Neither you nor your son are competent to make a good choice.

A C trumpet plays very differently from a Bb trumpet. If your son has little to no experience playing a C trumpet, he won't recognize a dog from a gem. Yes, all of the models recommended in this thread could be good choices, but how would anyone know (without hearing your son play the specific example) if that instrument is a good fit or not. Please, please, please, don't purchase an instrument for your son unless his teacher goes along for the test drives.

oxleyk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180

Louise Finch · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:03 am Post subject:

Dan O'Donnell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 2287

Play test a Kanstul 1510C.

The tone quality, play-ability and intonation are excellent!
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God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3

Andy Del · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:27 pm Post subject:

Listen to those who agree with Dan! He has done this for me in distant past (and another century) as I have done countless times.

I don't want to denigrate those with businesses selling instruments, and I know Trent and he is wonderful person who I would trust, BUT I do tell parents that most instrument salespeople are those who have been expelled from the used car salesman club for being shonky (that's Aussie for dishonest).

This is a pet peeve mine. Maybe it's just a low volume, small population market... where I live.

oh well...

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

James Becker · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject:

As a follow up to Saturday's Trumpet Day at Longy, we had some interesting comments regarding our blueprinted Bach C180L2229. The funny thing was, as players berated Bach C trumpets, they found our blueprinted Bach C to be exceptional. Mind you, it was not hand picked at the factory, but started as an "off the shelf" Bach C trumpet.

Demonstrating again that you need not settle for less, and we have the means to bring out the best from your trumpet(s).

I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

John Helmke · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: Sunday

Hey Harry!

I can loan you a 239 for Sunday if you want to give it a go. It's been tricked out a little and not for sale but if will give you a taste.

John Helmke
_________________
John Helmke

Bach 37G
Bach 239/25H
Schilke P5-4

Heim · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 181

blbaumgarn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705

Lots of great advice for you and your son. If you somehow live within driving distance of the gentleman offering a tryout on a 239 Bach, give it a go. When I got to college I was blaring on a Conn 36B and I asked my professor a few times about new B flats and he would always say plenty of time. He was a Schilke man. He provided the C Schilke if he wanted me to have a try at that. See if there is any way to try a used one short term. Perhaps there would be a used C at a shop where he could rent it for a short period of time for his youth symphony experience. The best known names out there in Bach and Yamaha both make great C horns. New, they are a pretty big investment, but if your son is really pointed in a performance direction the money spent on either of their C horns will be well spent. It would be best if he had the opportunity to try 3 or 4 different horns to see what he likes and is the most comfortable with. Best of Luck to you and your son.