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Re-lacquering advice



 
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hellbrawl
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Re-lacquering advice Reply with quote

Hi guys,

So I have this quite rare Selmer Concert T 703 C trumpet (from the 80's I believe?) that I definitely want to sell. The lacquer of the horn has mostly worn off and It doesn't have much cosmetic appeal, although otherwise It's a horn in great shape.

I'm planning on getting It re-lacquered for maybe a bit more chance of success in selling It, but I'm not sure if in case the lacquer covers the horns brand name, model no etc. It would not stand out much as a specific Selmer horn anymore and buyers would lose a bit interest for It.

What would You do in my case?
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wee steve
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to decide if it’s worth it, a relacquer will cost about £300 to £400, it will look brand new and it won’t cover the name, a good craftsmen will make it look brand new by repairing dents etc.. there will be some dents hidden when the horn is polished. Some like the vintage look though, you do need to work out what a mint condition one goes for before you take the plung.
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WFUnix
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion I would sell it as-is and let the buyer decide whether or not to get the horn refinished. Getting the horn lacquered obviously increases your investment into the the horn and I believe also increases your downside risk on getting a return. Also, what happens if you aren't happy with the lacquer job?
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Richard A
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Re-lacquering advice Reply with quote

hellbrawl wrote:
Hi guys,

So I have this quite rare Selmer Concert T 703 C trumpet (from the 80's I believe?) that I definitely want to sell. The lacquer of the horn has mostly worn off and It doesn't have much cosmetic appeal, although otherwise It's a horn in great shape.

I'm planning on getting It re-lacquered for maybe a bit more chance of success in selling It, but I'm not sure if in case the lacquer covers the horns brand name, model no etc. It would not stand out much as a specific Selmer horn anymore and buyers would lose a bit interest for It.

What would You do in my case?


Figure out what Fair Market Value in your area is in both as-is condition and like-new condition, then pick the one that nets the most cash for you.
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jvand678
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may help you fetch a slightly higher price but depending on the quality of the work, I don't foresee you getting your money back out of it. Relacquer jobs, in my opinion, are for instruments that have a special place with the owner and they intend to hang onto them for a while.

good luck!
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aTrumpetdude
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a 1947 F Besson Meha on eBay for about $400, spent about $450 having it restored and relacquered and then sold it on eBay about 10 years later for nearly $3000. So while there are no guarantees in life, I do not agree with those who think it's best to just sell it as is.

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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aTrumpetdude wrote:
I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass.

Just to add another opinion to the mix, I wouldn’t consider purchasing a raw brass instrument. Some percentage of the potential buyers will feel the same way.
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aTrumpetdude
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
aTrumpetdude wrote:
I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass.

Just to add another opinion to the mix, I wouldn’t consider purchasing a raw brass instrument. Some percentage of the potential buyers will feel the same way.

I don't doubt that at all, and most of the same people probably wouldn't consider buying a trumpet with most of the lacquer missing either. I can tell you from buying and selling a lot of horns online in the last few years that in most cases the same exact horn will sell for more in polished raw brass than with ugly spotty lacquer.

The Selmer horn in question is high value enough that it might recoup the cost to refinish but I don't think will be a real money maker and could be a loser, so is risky. I don't think the example of the '47 Besson could be applied too widely, maybe if the OP wants to hold onto the TT for another 10 years
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aTrumpetdude wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
aTrumpetdude wrote:
I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass.

Just to add another opinion to the mix, I wouldn’t consider purchasing a raw brass instrument. Some percentage of the potential buyers will feel the same way.

I don't doubt that at all, and most of the same people probably wouldn't consider buying a trumpet with most of the lacquer missing either. I can tell you from buying and selling a lot of horns online in the last few years that in most cases the same exact horn will sell for more in polished raw brass than with ugly spotty lacquer.

The Selmer horn in question is high value enough that it might recoup the cost to refinish but I don't think will be a real money maker and could be a loser, so is risky. I don't think the example of the '47 Besson could be applied too widely, maybe if the OP wants to hold onto the TT for another 10 years

You might be right about raw brass selling better, but we really cannot quantify it. Perhaps it is only that the raw brass is “shinier” than the ugly spotty lacquer and that spending a few minutes to make the lacquer example look better would result in a better selling price.

I just don’t agree that it is the slam dunk that I interpreted your point to be.
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Bill Blackwell
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
aTrumpetdude wrote:
I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass.

Just to add another opinion to the mix, I wouldn’t consider purchasing a raw brass instrument. Some percentage of the potential buyers will feel the same way.

IMHO, you're both right. I'd split the difference and have the horn chem (or sonic) cleaned and then sell it. You're probably looking at the same buyer profile in either (raw brass or worn-off lacquer) case.

Re-lacquering a horn in order to sell it is foolish, IMHO (you'd never recover the cost).
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ghelbig
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re-Lacquer advice Reply with quote

What's the short list of re-lacquer shops? The place I used to use stopped doing it.

Gary.
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jvand678
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Sawday & Charlie Melk are both some of the absolute best in the business but a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable.
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ghelbig
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvand678 wrote:
Don Sawday & Charlie Melk are both some of the absolute best in the business but a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable.


Sawday & Holmes does not have a web presence, and Charlie Melk is booked up until late next year.

Name names on "a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable" ? I was looking for names.

Gary.


Last edited by ghelbig on Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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jvand678
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghelbig wrote:
jvand678 wrote:
Don Sawday & Charlie Melk are both some of the absolute best in the business but a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable.


Name names on "a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable" ? I was looking for names.

Gary.


Gary, I gave you two names on my "short list." That's more than anyone else has offered.... You could have lead with a "thanks" or even started your question with "could you..."

Your demanding additional names really makes me want to not give you any names at all but here are a couple more to add to your list.

Kanstul (I've seen some decent work and some not so decent work)
Badger State
CIOMIT
Palen Music (Springfield, MO)

BTW, have you considered using the search function instead of hijacking someone else's thread?
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Horn_Depot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
I bought a 1947 F Besson Meha on eBay for about $400, spent about $450 having it restored and relacquered and then sold it on eBay about 10 years later for nearly $3000. So while there are no guarantees in life, I do not agree with those who think it's best to just sell it as is.



Sweet horn been wanting one to restore just havent found one cheap enough yet.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
I bought a 1947 F Besson Meha on eBay for about $400, spent about $450 having it restored and relacquered and then sold it on eBay about 10 years later for nearly $3000.

If you don't mind, John, who did the reconditioning?

Any thoughts on Dillon Music, (Jim Becker)?
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Any thoughts on Dillon Music, (Jim Becker)?


Just to be clear, I've been employed at OSMUN MUSIC for the past 28 years. And yes, we provide brass instrument refinishing services. Please phone the shop at 978-823-0580 or contact [email protected] to get current pricing for your trumpet overhaul in lacquer. Thanks!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Becker wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
Any thoughts on Dillon Music, (Jim Becker)?


Just to be clear, I've been employed at OSMUN MUSIC for the past 28 years.


Oooops. OSMUN MUSIC

(Gomenasai!)
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