View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
hellbrawl Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Posts: 17 Location: Estonia
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:11 am Post subject: Re-lacquering advice |
|
|
Hi guys,
So I have this quite rare Selmer Concert T 703 C trumpet (from the 80's I believe?) that I definitely want to sell. The lacquer of the horn has mostly worn off and It doesn't have much cosmetic appeal, although otherwise It's a horn in great shape.
I'm planning on getting It re-lacquered for maybe a bit more chance of success in selling It, but I'm not sure if in case the lacquer covers the horns brand name, model no etc. It would not stand out much as a specific Selmer horn anymore and buyers would lose a bit interest for It.
What would You do in my case? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wee steve Regular Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 76 Location: Cornwall UK
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
You need to decide if it’s worth it, a relacquer will cost about £300 to £400, it will look brand new and it won’t cover the name, a good craftsmen will make it look brand new by repairing dents etc.. there will be some dents hidden when the horn is polished. Some like the vintage look though, you do need to work out what a mint condition one goes for before you take the plung. _________________ Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn
Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii |
|
Back to top |
|
|
WFUnix Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2003 Posts: 433
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
In my opinion I would sell it as-is and let the buyer decide whether or not to get the horn refinished. Getting the horn lacquered obviously increases your investment into the the horn and I believe also increases your downside risk on getting a return. Also, what happens if you aren't happy with the lacquer job? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Richard A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 722 Location: Rhode Island, USA
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Re-lacquering advice |
|
|
hellbrawl wrote: | Hi guys,
So I have this quite rare Selmer Concert T 703 C trumpet (from the 80's I believe?) that I definitely want to sell. The lacquer of the horn has mostly worn off and It doesn't have much cosmetic appeal, although otherwise It's a horn in great shape.
I'm planning on getting It re-lacquered for maybe a bit more chance of success in selling It, but I'm not sure if in case the lacquer covers the horns brand name, model no etc. It would not stand out much as a specific Selmer horn anymore and buyers would lose a bit interest for It.
What would You do in my case? |
Figure out what Fair Market Value in your area is in both as-is condition and like-new condition, then pick the one that nets the most cash for you. _________________ Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jvand678 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 809 Location: TX
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
It may help you fetch a slightly higher price but depending on the quality of the work, I don't foresee you getting your money back out of it. Relacquer jobs, in my opinion, are for instruments that have a special place with the owner and they intend to hang onto them for a while.
good luck! _________________ Joe Vandiver |
|
Back to top |
|
|
aTrumpetdude Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Posts: 74
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass. _________________ Scodwell Boston
90's Bach Strad MLV 65GH
1950 Bach Strad 38
1969 Conn 8b Artist
1980 238 CL
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm1qCev_sfof-Bfj5MAMLrQ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
I bought a 1947 F Besson Meha on eBay for about $400, spent about $450 having it restored and relacquered and then sold it on eBay about 10 years later for nearly $3000. So while there are no guarantees in life, I do not agree with those who think it's best to just sell it as is.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12663 Location: Gardena, Ca
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
aTrumpetdude wrote: | I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass. |
Just to add another opinion to the mix, I wouldn’t consider purchasing a raw brass instrument. Some percentage of the potential buyers will feel the same way. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
aTrumpetdude Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Posts: 74
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LittleRusty wrote: | aTrumpetdude wrote: | I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass. |
Just to add another opinion to the mix, I wouldn’t consider purchasing a raw brass instrument. Some percentage of the potential buyers will feel the same way. |
I don't doubt that at all, and most of the same people probably wouldn't consider buying a trumpet with most of the lacquer missing either. I can tell you from buying and selling a lot of horns online in the last few years that in most cases the same exact horn will sell for more in polished raw brass than with ugly spotty lacquer.
The Selmer horn in question is high value enough that it might recoup the cost to refinish but I don't think will be a real money maker and could be a loser, so is risky. I don't think the example of the '47 Besson could be applied too widely, maybe if the OP wants to hold onto the TT for another 10 years _________________ Scodwell Boston
90's Bach Strad MLV 65GH
1950 Bach Strad 38
1969 Conn 8b Artist
1980 238 CL
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm1qCev_sfof-Bfj5MAMLrQ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12663 Location: Gardena, Ca
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
aTrumpetdude wrote: | LittleRusty wrote: | aTrumpetdude wrote: | I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass. |
Just to add another opinion to the mix, I wouldn’t consider purchasing a raw brass instrument. Some percentage of the potential buyers will feel the same way. |
I don't doubt that at all, and most of the same people probably wouldn't consider buying a trumpet with most of the lacquer missing either. I can tell you from buying and selling a lot of horns online in the last few years that in most cases the same exact horn will sell for more in polished raw brass than with ugly spotty lacquer.
The Selmer horn in question is high value enough that it might recoup the cost to refinish but I don't think will be a real money maker and could be a loser, so is risky. I don't think the example of the '47 Besson could be applied too widely, maybe if the OP wants to hold onto the TT for another 10 years |
You might be right about raw brass selling better, but we really cannot quantify it. Perhaps it is only that the raw brass is “shinier” than the ugly spotty lacquer and that spending a few minutes to make the lacquer example look better would result in a better selling price.
I just don’t agree that it is the slam dunk that I interpreted your point to be. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bill Blackwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2008 Posts: 1020 Location: Southern CA
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LittleRusty wrote: | aTrumpetdude wrote: | I don't think you will get your money back from re-lacquer. In my experience buyers discount re-lacquered horns almost as much as horns with a worn finish. If the current lacquer is really ugly you would probably be better off on resale by striping it to raw brass. |
Just to add another opinion to the mix, I wouldn’t consider purchasing a raw brass instrument. Some percentage of the potential buyers will feel the same way. |
IMHO, you're both right. I'd split the difference and have the horn chem (or sonic) cleaned and then sell it. You're probably looking at the same buyer profile in either (raw brass or worn-off lacquer) case.
Re-lacquering a horn in order to sell it is foolish, IMHO (you'd never recover the cost). _________________ Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine
Wild Thing Bb - Copper
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper
Wild Thing Short-Model Cornet - Copper
The future ain't what it used to be. ...
- Yogi Berra |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ghelbig Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 908 Location: Reno, NV
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject: Re-Lacquer advice |
|
|
What's the short list of re-lacquer shops? The place I used to use stopped doing it.
Gary. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jvand678 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 809 Location: TX
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Don Sawday & Charlie Melk are both some of the absolute best in the business but a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable. _________________ Joe Vandiver |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ghelbig Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 908 Location: Reno, NV
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
jvand678 wrote: | Don Sawday & Charlie Melk are both some of the absolute best in the business but a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable. |
Sawday & Holmes does not have a web presence, and Charlie Melk is booked up until late next year.
Name names on "a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable" ? I was looking for names.
Gary.
Last edited by ghelbig on Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jvand678 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 809 Location: TX
|
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ghelbig wrote: | jvand678 wrote: | Don Sawday & Charlie Melk are both some of the absolute best in the business but a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable. |
Name names on "a lot of guys are very good and quite affordable" ? I was looking for names.
Gary. |
Gary, I gave you two names on my "short list." That's more than anyone else has offered.... You could have lead with a "thanks" or even started your question with "could you..."
Your demanding additional names really makes me want to not give you any names at all but here are a couple more to add to your list.
Kanstul (I've seen some decent work and some not so decent work)
Badger State
CIOMIT
Palen Music (Springfield, MO)
BTW, have you considered using the search function instead of hijacking someone else's thread? _________________ Joe Vandiver |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Horn_Depot New Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 Posts: 5
|
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
John Mohan wrote: | I bought a 1947 F Besson Meha on eBay for about $400, spent about $450 having it restored and relacquered and then sold it on eBay about 10 years later for nearly $3000. So while there are no guarantees in life, I do not agree with those who think it's best to just sell it as is.
|
Sweet horn been wanting one to restore just havent found one cheap enough yet. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9025 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
John Mohan wrote: | I bought a 1947 F Besson Meha on eBay for about $400, spent about $450 having it restored and relacquered and then sold it on eBay about 10 years later for nearly $3000. |
If you don't mind, John, who did the reconditioning?
Any thoughts on Dillon Music, (Jim Becker)? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
|
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
kehaulani wrote: | Any thoughts on Dillon Music, (Jim Becker)? |
Just to be clear, I've been employed at OSMUN MUSIC for the past 28 years. And yes, we provide brass instrument refinishing services. Please phone the shop at 978-823-0580 or contact sales@osmun.com to get current pricing for your trumpet overhaul in lacquer. Thanks! _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9025 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
James Becker wrote: | kehaulani wrote: | Any thoughts on Dillon Music, (Jim Becker)? |
Just to be clear, I've been employed at OSMUN MUSIC for the past 28 years. |
Oooops. OSMUN MUSIC
(Gomenasai!) _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|