Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:42 am Post subject:
abundrefo wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Hi abundrefo
Congratulations on your new trumpet. I'm glad that you had such a positive experience and found a trumpet you really like. I really like my Xeno II too.
As a matter of interest and thinking about my comments on the classical v jazz trumpet thread, when I wondered whether my Xeno II seems more orchestrally orientated owing to me having the lacquered version, would you mind sharing whether you found any differences between the lacquered 8335II and the 8335SII you chose, over and above the differences between the two silver-plated ones, or which you could contribute to the different finish.
Many thanks
Lou
Hi Lou,
Humm... I'm not sure how to describe it more accurately. When I played the lacquered version and the 8335IIS I bought, I just felt the 8335IIS was more precise and with a broader tone. Maybe the lacquered version was more transparent and had a tiny little bit of a softer slotting.
Hi abundrefo
Thanks very much. You say that your silver-plated version has a broader tone. That is interesting, as I do find the sound of my lacquered Xeno fairly narrow and concentrated with a lot of core. I really like this for orchestral playing, but would prefer a broader tone for more commercial applications. I wonder whether the silver-plated version is a little more versatile.
What please do you mean by the lacquered version being more transparent? Regarding the slotting, I find my lacquered Xeno fairly slotty. Maybe this is just individual differences between horns, as mine being an ex-demo, I didn't trying any others.
Thanks very much again.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Congratulations on your new trumpet. I'm glad that you had such a positive experience and found a trumpet you really like. I really like my Xeno II too.
As a matter of interest and thinking about my comments on the classical v jazz trumpet thread, when I wondered whether my Xeno II seems more orchestrally orientated owing to me having the lacquered version, would you mind sharing whether you found any differences between the lacquered 8335II and the 8335SII you chose, over and above the differences between the two silver-plated ones, or which you could contribute to the different finish.
Many thanks
Lou
Hi Lou,
Humm... I'm not sure how to describe it more accurately. When I played the lacquered version and the 8335IIS I bought, I just felt the 8335IIS was more precise and with a broader tone. Maybe the lacquered version was more transparent and had a tiny little bit of a softer slotting.
Hi abundrefo
Thanks very much. You say that your silver-plated version has a broader tone. That is interesting, as I do find the sound of my lacquered Xeno fairly narrow and concentrated with a lot of core. I really like this for orchestral playing, but would prefer a broader tone for more commercial applications. I wonder whether the silver-plated version is a little more versatile.
What please do you mean by the lacquered version being more transparent? Regarding the slotting, I find my lacquered Xeno fairly slotty. Maybe this is just individual differences between horns, as mine being an ex-demo, I didn't trying any others.
Thanks very much again.
Take care
Lou
Hi Lou,
Maybe I was struggling with adjectives and metaphors but all I can say is that I've got a better balance between control and feedback with the silver version.
...and I usually prefer lacquered trumpets.
By the way... Have you ever seen this video from TrumpetScout? He A-B compares the same horn (a B&S Challenger I 3137) in two finishes. I can clearly hear a difference. I hope this helps:
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:39 am Post subject:
abundrefo wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
abundrefo wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Hi abundrefo
Congratulations on your new trumpet. I'm glad that you had such a positive experience and found a trumpet you really like. I really like my Xeno II too.
As a matter of interest and thinking about my comments on the classical v jazz trumpet thread, when I wondered whether my Xeno II seems more orchestrally orientated owing to me having the lacquered version, would you mind sharing whether you found any differences between the lacquered 8335II and the 8335SII you chose, over and above the differences between the two silver-plated ones, or which you could contribute to the different finish.
Many thanks
Lou
Hi Lou,
Humm... I'm not sure how to describe it more accurately. When I played the lacquered version and the 8335IIS I bought, I just felt the 8335IIS was more precise and with a broader tone. Maybe the lacquered version was more transparent and had a tiny little bit of a softer slotting.
Hi abundrefo
Thanks very much. You say that your silver-plated version has a broader tone. That is interesting, as I do find the sound of my lacquered Xeno fairly narrow and concentrated with a lot of core. I really like this for orchestral playing, but would prefer a broader tone for more commercial applications. I wonder whether the silver-plated version is a little more versatile.
What please do you mean by the lacquered version being more transparent? Regarding the slotting, I find my lacquered Xeno fairly slotty. Maybe this is just individual differences between horns, as mine being an ex-demo, I didn't trying any others.
Thanks very much again.
Take care
Lou
Hi Lou,
Hi abundrefo
Maybe I was struggling with adjectives and metaphors but all I can say is that I've got a better balance between control and feedback with the silver version.
...and I usually prefer lacquered trumpets.
Interesting, thanks very much for the clarification.
By the way... Have you ever seen this video from TrumpetScout? He A-B compares the same horn (a B&S Challenger I 3137) in two finishes. I can clearly hear a difference. I hope this helps:
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 1251 Location: Boston MA
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:52 am Post subject:
I actually like the silver better but that could just be that the silver horn was better and nothing to do with the finish. _________________ Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:38 am Post subject:
Hi abundrefo
Very interesting video, thanks. Although I agree that it is hard to put it in words, and this is a different player, different horn and no doubt a different mouthpiece, the sound qualities of the lacquered horn are those I hear in my own lacquered Xeno II. I personally felt that the silver horn in the video sounded more versatile.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 1251 Location: Boston MA
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:13 am Post subject:
Further up the thread I mentioned I was going to a "horn day" at the shop where I bought my horn last week. Thought I would try the RS model and maybe another couple of 8335IIS's but after this mornings practice I am wanting for nothing. This horn is the best horn I've ever played and I've had a bunch (8310Z, Getzen Sev.,HubVanLaar 2, Carol Brass, Burbank 3*,Manchester Brass RL-GB, KAnstul 700, Kanstul 1503,Jupiter 1601i Ingram,Yamaha 6340st,Yamaha 8335RGM).
Perhaps one day I'll want a different sound but this horn plays easy, sounds good, has fantastic intonation and is built well in that the valves and slides all work flawlessly. Should be a good companion thru out my development. _________________ Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:47 am Post subject:
BobD wrote:
Further up the thread I mentioned I was going to a "horn day" at the shop where I bought my horn last week. Thought I would try the RS model and maybe another couple of 8335IIS's but after this mornings practice I am wanting for nothing. This horn is the best horn I've ever played and I've had a bunch (8310Z, Getzen Sev.,HubVanLaar 2, Carol Brass, Burbank 3*,Manchester Brass RL-GB, KAnstul 700, Kanstul 1503,Jupiter 1601i Ingram,Yamaha 6340st,Yamaha 8335RGM).
Perhaps one day I'll want a different sound but this horn plays easy, sounds good, has fantastic intonation and is built well in that the valves and slides all work flawlessly. Should be a good companion thru out my development.
Hi BobD
All great news. I'm very pleased to hear that you are enjoying your new trumpet so much.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Questions for those who bought a new 8335II:
Does the friction of the valve spring + metal guide make a squeak noise that's a bit louder in the second valve than in the other two valves?
Maybe this happens because the second valve is directly connected to the bell?
I read somewhere, when I had a 8310Z with metal guides, that the guides get quiet after some months and that time would allow the guide to break-in. I never tried that because I preferred the way the 8310Z played with nylon guides. But with the 8335II that's not the case. It plays much better with metal guides. So, does it actually get quieter after a while?
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:37 am Post subject:
abundrefo wrote:
Questions for those who bought a new 8335II:
Does the friction of the valve spring + metal guide make a squeak noise that's a bit louder in the second valve than in the other two valves?
Maybe this happens because the second valve is directly connected to the bell?
Hi abundrefo
Bearing in mind that mine has been my primary trumpet for two years, so has a fair amount of use, in my opinion, the noise is the same for all three valves, and I wouldn't describe it as a squeak noise. I feel that rather than being anything to do with the metal valve guides, that it may actually be that the springs are a little noisy. It is improving, but when I first got my trumpet, I thought that the springs were too stiff for my taste.
I read somewhere, when I had a 8310Z with metal guides, that the guides get quiet after some months and that time would allow the guide to break-in. I never tried that because I preferred the way the 8310Z played with nylon guides. But with the 8335II that's not the case. It plays much better with metal guides. So, does it actually get quieter after a while?
I imagine it does, because as my valve springs have gradually softened, the valves don't seem so noisy. In fact, I would say that after two years, mine aren't that noisy at all.
I really hope that this will help.
Best wishes
Lou
Thanks
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Dear Lou, dstdenis, and other 8335 Xeno II owners following this topic. I have two questions:
1-
Where do you put your third valve slide stop screw? Inside (shorter slide throw) or outside (longer slide throw)?
What are the differences in sound, articulation, slotting, etc. you feel in each of the two positions?
I’ve been trying to feel the benefits of each position and I’d like to hear what's your experience about this, since you’ve been playing the Xeno II for a longer time.
2-
Yesterday I washed my 8335IIS for the second time to clean all the residue caused by the break in period (the first time I washed it was about a month ago). And this time, instead of using the Yamaha Regular oil that came with it, I used the Yamaha Light.
I feel the springs/guides noise got a lot better and the horn got, somehow, a bit easier to play. So, what valve oil are you using right now? And, did you use a lighter oil when the horn was new?
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:27 am Post subject:
Hi abundrefo,
abundrefo wrote:
Where do you put your third valve slide stop screw? Inside (shorter slide throw) or outside (longer slide throw)?
I put it on the inside (shorter slide throw) only because that's where I'm used to finding it on other horns and I haven't needed the longer throw for anything I've played yet.
abundrefo wrote:
What are the differences in sound, articulation, slotting, etc. you feel in each of the two positions?
I played with the stop screw in the outer (longer slide throw) for the first week or so, but I didn't notice any difference in sound or playability when I switched. I've experienced more significant differences in sound and playability over time just from playing different kinds of music and experimenting with how hard to blow, how hard/lightly to articulate, how much embouchure flex to use for jazz inflections, etc. I liked the way the horn sounded and felt to play from when I first got it, but I've also grown happier with it over time as I've learned more about what it can do.
abundrefo wrote:
what valve oil are you using right now? And, did you use a lighter oil when the horn was new?
I use Monster Faster, which is a lighter oil. I've also used Yamaha synthetic light, which worked well. The valves are pretty tight, and I oil them often just to flush the water out of the casings and keep the valves floating in oil, so I prefer a lighter oil. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:23 am Post subject:
abundrefo wrote:
Dear Lou, dstdenis, and other 8335 Xeno II owners following this topic. I have two questions:
Dear abundrefo
1-
Where do you put your third valve slide stop screw? Inside (shorter slide throw) or outside (longer slide throw)?
Outside, longer throw.
What are the differences in sound, articulation, slotting, etc. you feel in each of the two positions?
I can't remember whether there was a difference in sound or articulation, but I noticed more resistance and tighter slotting with the inside, shorter throw. Since I prefer looser slotting and less resistance, and have reduced my mouthpiece gap via sleeves to accomplish this, I prefer and use the outside, longer throw position.
I’ve been trying to feel the benefits of each position and I’d like to hear what's your experience about this, since you’ve been playing the Xeno II for a longer time.
I understand. I haven't experimented since initially preferring the outer position around two years ago, so I am very sorry that I cannot be of more help.
2-
Yesterday I washed my 8335IIS for the second time to clean all the residue caused by the break in period (the first time I washed it was about a month ago). And this time, instead of using the Yamaha Regular oil that came with it, I used the Yamaha Light.
I feel the springs/guides noise got a lot better and the horn got, somehow, a bit easier to play. So, what valve oil are you using right now? And, did you use a lighter oil when the horn was new?
I use Yamaha Light. I bought my trumpet as an ex-demo and it didn't come with any valve oil. I was already using Yamaha Light on my Yamaha cornet, so started using that, and have stuck with it. I've however had a bad experience with the Yamaha Super Light.
A UK retailer (NOT the one linked above) sent me the Super Light by mistake, and although described as being for custom and professional trumpets, I found it to be terrible on both my Yamaha professional trumpet and cornet.
My trumpet and cornet valves felt horrible like I had oiled them with water (this valve oil appears extremely thin when applying it), and tended to hang. I even had to re-oil midway through a morning rehearsal, which I've never had to do before.
I haven't tried the Yamaha Regular oil my Xeno II.
Thank you!
You are very welcome. If you haven't already, I'd suggest experimenting with mouthpiece gap. Whereas my Bach 37 plays well within a reasonably large gap range, I've found that my Xeno II definitely has a sweet spot. My 2005 Bach 3C inserts 24mm in the receiver. Using Jim New's gap modulator on a copy of my Bach 3C, I confirmed that an insertion amount of 25mm (which happens to replicate the insertion amount of the supplied Yamaha 16C4 mouthpiece) really opens the blow and improves the response for me.
I hope that this will help.
Take care
Lou
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 17 Jul 2016 Posts: 180 Location: Denver, CO
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:05 am Post subject:
Quote:
Maybe I was struggling with adjectives and metaphors but all I can say is that I've got a better balance between control and feedback with the silver version.
...and I usually prefer lacquered trumpets.
By the way... Have you ever seen this video from TrumpetScout? He A-B compares the same horn (a B&S Challenger I 3137) in two finishes. I can clearly hear a difference. I hope this helps:
Wow, great find on this 'test'. I hear a very slight difference, actually less that I might have thought.
Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0oTInzvKuk . This is a test of various trumpet models at Austin winds. They have a player play differnet models with different configurations. What was most interesting here was yellow brass vs red brass vs other brass bells, on the same model.
I started this other topic because I noticed something that may be caused by top cap threads and Xeno II's thinner valve casing.
To sum things up, I was feeling that all three top caps had different engagement points. Top cap threads on valve #1 seemed to be the tightest, #3 not so tight and #2 with a bit more room to turn.
That gave me two options:
A- turning it gently and stop turing where caps are reaching the end of the threads (but, if I'm not careful, cap #2 could get loose and rattle while I'm playing).
B- stop turning at the point where all caps are really tight. This was no good, as it affected resonance and upper register openness.
Yesterday I did two things that may have solved the problem:
1- I switched caps 2 and 3 and it got a little bit better.
2- I put a bit of Ultra-Pure heavy grease on the treads.
That made the unscrewing/screwing procedure much more even and smooth. And now I'm hoping every time I oil my valves I get the exact same resonance and upper register openness.
Did you ever notice anything like this with your Xeno II?
Thank you.
A "Canadian" Yamaha trumpet? Does it smell like back bacon and taste like maple syrup? I can't believe that no one has picked up on that as a usual Canuck stereotype. There is one added benefit to your trumpet you may be unaware of. If used regularly you will find yourself feeling much healthier. On the negative side you will no longer feel the need to purchase an assault rifle with a high capacity magazine for home defence. Easy trolls, it's just a joke based on our stereotypical views
Questions for those who bought a new 8335II:
Does the friction of the valve spring + metal guide make a squeak noise that's a bit louder in the second valve than in the other two valves?
Maybe this happens because the second valve is directly connected to the bell?
I read somewhere, when I had a 8310Z with metal guides, that the guides get quiet after some months and that time would allow the guide to break-in. I never tried that because I preferred the way the 8310Z played with nylon guides. But with the 8335II that's not the case. It plays much better with metal guides. So, does it actually get quieter after a while?
Thanks
I never experienced anything I would describe as a squeak relating to the valves on my 8345II. That being said, I definitely felt they were the loudest of any trumpet I've played, at least initially. Over the course of playing it daily for a couple months the clatter faded, and now I do not notice it at all. I'm particularly annoyed with value noises, but I went with the assumption that a break in period was required before I passed judgement. In my particular case, I'm glad I waited because I've been extremely happy with this horn. _________________ My Gear
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:28 am Post subject:
Hi
I found one negative aspect to the Xeno II yesterday (only a small one, and I still love this trumpet). In my Community Light Orchestra, we started playing the following yesterday:
Despite what I consider to be my rather lousy plunger technique, it was going rather well apart from the A flats. They sounded rather strange and the conductor was querying them. He asked me to play an A flat with the clarinet, talk about flat, me and everyone else had faces like chewing a wasp, then my colleague said Lou, you do know that you have your third slide right out, and I looked, and it was right out to the low F position.
One of my minor gripes with this trumpet is the 3rd slide stop screw. Since when screwed right in, it is designed with a small gap for the slide to pass through until it hits the lip at the end of slide, there is no way of fixing the slide in the close position. Since I normally play with two hands, and have my 3rd finger of my left hand through the ring, and also tend to play with my head up to keep the bell up/look at the conductor, it isn't usually a problem. Not having the longest arms for using a plunger, I had my bell down further than usual, and not holding the slide in at all, it dropped out to its fully extended position without me realising.
For this reason, and the additional reason in my opinion of it being easier to lose a stop screw if you don't periodically tighten it, than the two stop nuts that tighten against each other with a 3rd slide stop rod system, I personally prefer the Bach stop rod system.
It is a minor gripe, and one I temporarily solved via a rather loose hair tie I just happened to have in my bag, and more permanently solved with the Yamaha slide stopper which came with my ex-demo trumpet (I'm not sure whether new ones are supplied with this).
I'm using it in the first pictured position. Although not great for general playing, I've found that I can still extend the slides, and of course I can take it off for the rest of my playing. Since my 3rd slide is always extended when I take my trumpet out of its case, it will probably be better for transporting my trumpet.
Best wishes
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:28 am Post subject:
Yes, that slide stopper was included with my Xeno, and I always keep it on the trumpet while playing. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:54 am Post subject:
dstdenis wrote:
Yes, that slide stopper was included with my Xeno, and I always keep it on the trumpet while playing.
Hi dstdenis
Thank you very much for confirming this. Interesting that you always keep it on the trumpet whilst playing. I don't see any issue with this, since it has a enough elasticity to allow movement of the slides, but have never seen anyone using one before.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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