• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

How do I play fast in a solo?



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Jazz/Commercial
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
casivake718
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: How do I play fast in a solo? Reply with quote

I'm a high schooler starting to get the hang of improvising. I'm starting to using the right jazz vocabulary at the right time during a solo (sometimes playing out) and my teacher and band director has liked how I've been improvising in the past couple of months. Now what I want to know is how to play these fast solo's similar to players like Lee Morgan or Freddie Hubbard? It's always been a dream of mine to improvise like these legends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Learn the scales (which includes modes) that match up to the different chord symbols and practice.

Practice a lot.

I know it sounds like the same canned response you get to practically any "how to" question on this site, but remember that the one thing we never hear from any of the greats in any field is the ridiculous amount of practicing they do. They practiced it until they don't even have to think about it. That's the only real way to get there.

So, practice. A lot.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
casivake718
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tpt_Guy wrote:

I know it sounds like the same canned response you get to practically any "how to" question on this site, but remember that the one thing we never hear from any of the greats in any field is the ridiculous amount of practicing they do. They practiced it until they don't even have to think about it.


I really like your response. I never really thought about the idea of how much these players actually practiced and how patient they were. So thank you for your response.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trickg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5675
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

casivake718 wrote:
Tpt_Guy wrote:

I know it sounds like the same canned response you get to practically any "how to" question on this site, but remember that the one thing we never hear from any of the greats in any field is the ridiculous amount of practicing they do. They practiced it until they don't even have to think about it.


I really like your response. I never really thought about the idea of how much these players actually practiced and how patient they were. So thank you for your response.

I've told this story probably a dozen times, but it bears repeating, and it's relevant to the discussion.

I attended a percussion/drum event one day and during a percussion clinic, the clinician, a college percussion instructor, recounted a story from his own early college days. He wasn't happy with his drum roll, so he asked his professor about what he could to do improve it. He thought he was going to get some tip, trick or shortcut that would turn on the light bulb.

His professor said, "if you want to improve your roll, then roll - 10 minutes a day, every day."

No tricks, no shortcut, no tip - just the basic wisdom that there is no shortcut to learning some things. You have to put in the focused work to refine the technique, increase fluency and knowledge, and that sort of thing.

Tpt_Guy gave it to you straight - it's going to take lots of practice and lots of work - there is no other way to do it.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dstdenis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 2123
Location: Atlanta GA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently found a smartphone app called "The Amazing Slow Downer" from ronimusic.com. There's a free version that only plays the first 25% of each tune and a paid version that will play the entire tune. It's available for iPhone, iPad and Android.

The app lets you upload a tune to the app and play it back at a range of speeds from 25% to 200% of the original tempo without altering the pitch. This lets you take a recording that you want to learn and slow it down enough to identify the flurry of notes. You can play it back through a bluetooth speaker and gradually pick up the tempo as you play along and develop your skills.

There's also a pitch adjustment slider that will change the pitch, especially helpful if the original recording was tuned to a strange pitch center and you want to fix it. You can also use this slider to play back the tune in a different key.

If I were in your shoes and wanted to learn fast solos, I'd pick a few, load them into this app, and slow down the playback enough to pick out the notes. Then I'd play along and gradually pick up the tempo.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8964
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worthy comments but don't be overwhelmed. Keep in mind that we all started not knowing what we were doing. It takes a long time to mastery but you can begin improvising right now, so go for it. Enjoy it and have fun.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bach_again
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 2478
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Work on clean articulate and musically clear ideas, slowly. Don't ignore any of the bebop tradition. Fast doesn't mean anything if it's garbage, it doesn't mean anything if it's not contextualised or meaningful.

Clarke in all the horrible keys, major and minor.

Gerard Presencer's Modern Approach to Playing is a good book for working articulation and jazz language in a large-sequence fashion.

Transcribe, man! Stan Getz played some of the most swinging clear 16th note ideas whilst never losing any beauty of sound or compositional forethought. Him with the Oscar Peterson Trio is crazy good. "I wanna be happy" solo is embedded in my mind.

You already have the most important thing: wanting to learn. The rest is in the how.

Best,
Mike
_________________
Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk

Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals

The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9828
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same way you get to Carnegie Hall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8964
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
The same way you get to Carnegie Hall.


LOL!
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator


Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: How do I play fast in a solo? Reply with quote

casivake718 wrote:
I'm a high schooler starting to get the hang of improvising. I'm starting to using the right jazz vocabulary at the right time during a solo (sometimes playing out) and my teacher and band director has liked how I've been improvising in the past couple of months. Now what I want to know is how to play these fast solo's similar to players like Lee Morgan or Freddie Hubbard? It's always been a dream of mine to improvise like these legends.


May I be so bold as to suggest my Improv Speed Builders . . . a clever way to practice and build your improvisational speed at the same time.

Everybody says “start slow and move the metronome up gradually” . . . well, these volumes do exactly that for you, but the beauty of it is that you really don’t even realize that the metronome is being moved up on you. This is a very sneaky way of being fooled into playing faster without even realizing it.

These are 100% digital downloads . . . about 17 hours of play-along tracks per volume that push you slowly and incrementally toward playing cleaner and faster. Blues, “Bird” Blues, Minor Blues, “Giant Steps” changes, and Nuts & Bolts (several different kinds of cycles).

Very much worth the reasonable cost. In fact, use the coupon code boptismholidays to get 20% off everything at our website.

Thanks . . . by the way, this approach really works. I know this first-hand.
_________________
Puttin’ On The Ritz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jazz_trpt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 5734
Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The content of your solos notwithstanding...as far as finger speed...

I recommend practicing at slow tempos and making certain that you're not swinging the eighth notes much at all. Craft your articulations with purpose and try to be systematic about why you choose them.

I found it useful to take a little melodic fragment like

G-A-Bb-C-D-Bb-A-G (simple lick implying Gmi)

...setting a metronome, and playing it in all 12 keys (ascending/descending chromatically) gave me some help in improving my finger speed early on.
The Clarke studies were valuable for me as well.
_________________
Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Turkle
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 2450
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learned to play quickly by practicing all my scales and arpeggios in all modes, starting very, very slow (so slow you can't miss a note) and working up the tempo faster, and faster, and faster.

The book "Patterns for Jazz" by Coker was crucial for my development.

Here is my favorite speed builder: Pick a mode (any mode). Let's go with Dorian. Play the scale through the cycle of 4ths, alternating ascending and descending. So C Dorian ascending, F Dorian descending, Bb Dorian ascending, etc. Tongue every note. Start slow and move the metronome up two clicks at a time until you're double-tonguing everything.

Now do the same, starting on C Dorian descending, F Dorian ascending, etc. Tongue every other note. Work it slow to fast.

Now play the corresponding arpeggio: Cmin7 ascending, Fmin7 descending, etc. Tongue every note.

Now play the arpeggios Cmin7 descending, Fmin7 ascending, etc. Tongue every other note.

For all of the above, make sure your metronome is on 2 and 4.

If you do the above for many years, you'll have chops and the speed to back them up!

Make sure you're also practicing bebop scales, all your altered dominants, modes of melodic and harmonic minor, and of course transcribing solos with great vocabulary.

Good luck!
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2410
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkle wrote:
The book "Patterns for Jazz" by Coker was crucial for my development.

While I cut my teeth on Aebersold, Jerry Coker's "Patterns for Jazz" has been the most helpful book for me, too.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
homecookin
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 868

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Turkle and TrumpetMD...
Jerry Coker's book, Patterns for Jazz
is excellent for developing your technique
and jazz vocabulary.
And if you persevere it is
also helpful in developing your
high chops.
PERSEVERE is the key word.
It takes time and dedication.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JoseLindE4
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 791

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slow, careful, thoughtful practice is the key to everything. Remember that every scale and pattern we practice is ultimately ear training (getting the vocabulary in your ears) and then connecting that to the physical (getting it under your fingers). So slow down.

Additionally, there's something strange that happens to some of us when we practice slow - we play differently than our fast playing. Nice soft articulations become tense and forceful, fingers become tense, etc. It's important to practice slowly in such a way that it will speed up well. If we have a slow gear and a fast gear, there will be a catch in the middle and our fast gear will never sound natural. The advice about not swinging the 8ths too much plays into this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
cheiden
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew a couple of guys who became terrific soloists. The teacher they worked with insisted that they never solo any faster than they could process in their head (my words, not theirs). As a consequence that both spent a year or two playing solos that sounded much slower than typical. After that their speed and quality took off.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
andrew.egizio
New Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 5
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I started to learn how to improvise, I always thought that playing 16th note lines was this impossible thing, when I could play 8th note lines pretty well. It then dawned on me that I shouldn't think of the harmonies or lines any different than I would at a slower tempo/note length and It made crafting faster lines a lot easier for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: How do I play fast in a solo? Reply with quote

BeboppinFool wrote:
casivake718 wrote:
I'm a high schooler starting to get the hang of improvising. I'm starting to using the right jazz vocabulary at the right time during a solo (sometimes playing out) and my teacher and band director has liked how I've been improvising in the past couple of months. Now what I want to know is how to play these fast solo's similar to players like Lee Morgan or Freddie Hubbard? It's always been a dream of mine to improvise like these legends.


May I be so bold as to suggest my Improv Speed Builders . . . a clever way to practice and build your improvisational speed at the same time.

Everybody says “start slow and move the metronome up gradually” . . . well, these volumes do exactly that for you, but the beauty of it is that you really don’t even realize that the metronome is being moved up on you. This is a very sneaky way of being fooled into playing faster without even realizing it.

These are 100% digital downloads . . . about 17 hours of play-along tracks per volume that push you slowly and incrementally toward playing cleaner and faster. Blues, “Bird” Blues, Minor Blues, “Giant Steps” changes, and Nuts & Bolts (several different kinds of cycles).

Very much worth the reasonable cost. In fact, use the coupon code boptismholidays to get 20% off everything at our website.

Thanks . . . by the way, this approach really works. I know this first-hand.


And Rich's Clark studies variations have helped me a lot. Hey, Rich.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10202
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play along with faster tunes on Spotify, YouTube or your favorite CD.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
aaronwolf1
New Member


Joined: 04 Feb 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Practice it slow! Then, as you start to internalize the changes, up the tempo. 9753 on every chord change by memory, any tempo, and you'll be golden.
_________________
Aaron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Jazz/Commercial All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group