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Billy B
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Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6130
Location: Des Moines
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 Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | A smaller piece will not add notes to your range unless you are playing incorrectly.
A smaller piece and more importantly a different back bore will help with endurance and help achieve a characteristic commercial sound. |
+1, I use one of Trent Austin's mpces for that very reason, especially the "commercial sound" reference.
Brad |
Charlie Davis uses a Reeves 42M that has a Bach 3C rim. Many Adam students use the Reeves/Bach combo then go back to the Bach for legit work.
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MOS3
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Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Posts: 1
Location: Placentia, California
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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I try to stay away from using shallow mouthpieces. For me, they take way too long to get used to and just end up making my range totally inconsistent.
I actually find it easiest to play high on my gold Bach 1 1/2 C, especially while marching. Notes slot better, tension is a thing of the past, and low register comes easy.
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"Is there a diminuendo written?" |
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig Swartz wrote: | | Martinharris wrote: | | It is very difficult to play much above high C on a 3C. |
Exactly where in the hell did you come up with that opinion??? And by "much above high C" are you referring to endurance or interval? A Bach 3C is not all that big...
I don't usually encourage people to spend all day hanging around here but in your case- you may learn something. Good luck. |
+1 Google Danny Barber 3C on an ML37 |
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number juan
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Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:18 pm Post subject: Looking back at this question of mine... |
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I hadn't seen this old question of mine in a while.
I'm still using a 3C.
I haven't tried too many other mouthpieces, out of the ones I've tried i haven't found one with a rim that i like better.
Although i have come to prefer the 3C, i can now play consistently to a G above high C on any mouthpiece and every other day to a dhc on my regular mouthpiece.
If i could talk to myself two years ago I'd say mouthpieces don't matter as much as i thought they did |
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: are larger mouthpieces harder to play higher? |
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| number juan wrote: | I started on a 3c a little more than two years ago and i believe my range is developing okay. I just want to know if playing notes higher than the high C would be easier with a smaller mouthpiece. Don't want to cheat, just wondering cause there are times when i have to hold a high note with a fermata in jazz towards the end of a concert and i want to know if there's maybe a mouthpiece size that can help me a bit with endurance until I can gain enough to last with any mouthpiece.
Don't judge me, i don't have experience when it comes to trumpet equipment |
Let's remove the word "cheat" completely from your reference to whether blowing high notes is easier on smaller/shallower mouthpieces. I mention this right off the bat because I believe this very suggestion that,
"Small/shallower mouthpieces are cheating"
To be among the most harmful statements we hear regarding advice on upper register playing. The fact is that we just don't know which mouthpiece will be best for you to blow in order to progress rapidly in learning the upper register.
The truth is that smaller and shallower mouthpieces both TEND to,
A. Be the mouthpiece of choice for most of the professionals known to make their living playing high notes. That abd,
B. Smaller/shallower pieces TEND to allow the beginner to intermediate trumpet player to learn his upper register more quickly than on the larger pieces.
C. Plenty of good trumpet players keep a shallower piece on hand for the end of long, demanding concerts. Did it myself two different nights just last week!
But of course everything is up to the individual. Today from my vantage point I have long observed a preference among teachers of the trumpet to push the larger pieces on their students. From the Bach 3C on down to the Bach 1. I think that it was Herseth who was known for starting this trend. And most orchestras of major name recognition followed his path. However,
Orchestral trumpet playing is only a small portion of modern music today. And even here we will usually see a strong orchestra trumpet switch to some kind of shallower mouthpiece just as soon as he plays the Brandenburg No II.
And in it's own way piccolo trumpet playing resembles commercial lead trumpet playing. And one of the most limiting characteristics an aspiring trumpet will find as soon as he puts himself out there looking for paying gigs is if he has the chops to blow lead?
When I left college to go out on the road I soon found that stamina, power (loud volume) and some high notes were absolutely the main reason why I kept my gigs. So from my vantage point I wish that we could go back in time and eliminate the existing bias against learning on shallower mouthpieces.
I like to compare high note trumpet playing to the game of golf. There are some similarities actually. Back when he was young and new, golf great Lee Trevino had his golf swing criticized. Even when he was beating Jack Nicklaus!!! So you see there will always be criticism of ideas which seem to violate conventional thinking. Speaking of which?
Lynn Nicholson, as far as I am concerned is Da Msn when it comes to explaining high notes. His words,
"Conventional thinking produces conventional results"
When thinking back on most of the advice I received while learning the trumpet as a kid and its both a wonder that I can play high notes or just didnt quit altogether. And again I'm reminded of Lee Trevino who when asked who his teacher was,
"I never had a teacher who I couldnt beat on a golf course..."
I never had a teacher who could take a jazz or commercial gig away from me.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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bnsd
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Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:53 am Post subject: |
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I know it's been said already (I didn't read every post)... your chops will work best with a certain size/depth. It's different for everybody.
I was volunteering at a high school fund raiser for a high school band, and as I was warming up (not showing off yet) a high school kid asked me if I play on a small shallow piece... I showed him my 1C, and he was flabbergasted. He showed the piece he was playing and said it was "the reason he couldn't play high"
I grabbed his trumpet and his mouthpiece and popped a G... practice kid. Go to a music store, and try out some different pieces. Sometimes, your equipment may not be the correct choice, but more often than not it's talent and commitment.
My range is essentially the same on my 1C and my 3Z. It's the tone that changes. |
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rufflicks
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Location: Mesa AZ
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jazzhorn04
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Posts: 289
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Pete wrote: | Going from a 3C to a 3D or Yamaha Shew Jazz, Warburton M cups, etc. give you a bit more resistance and a brighter sound without being too extreme.
Pete |
Am I the only one who feels like the Shew Jazz is bigger than a "standard" 3c? I switched to a Shew Jazz for a bit to experiment and my sound was much darker and warmer. The cup felt deeper as well. Different strokes and all, but I keep seeing people say the Shew Jazz is a more efficient piece. My experience, even tho it sounded great, was the opposite. YMMV |
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8911
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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I like the way the Shew Jazz feels and sounds. But to the extent that I stuck with it, it just seemed to tire me out quicker.
I know only one player that prefers the 3D for lead playing. I played a custom Bach 3C with the tighter 76 backbore for a number of years. Didn't make a huge difference for me and eventually gave it up.
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VintageFTW
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Joined: 21 Apr 2016
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Location: Somewhere in the mountains of North Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| dstdenis wrote: | | You should choose a mouthpiece rim diameter to fit your embouchure. If you have large, fleshy lips, you would probably struggle with a smaller mouthpiece and do better with a larger one. If you have small, thin lips, you would probably do better with a smaller mouthpiece. Once you have the diameter figured out, you can then look at things like cup size and shape, bore and backbore to help get the resistance and sound you want for the music you are playing. |
Nailed it! I might conjecture a little about the fleshy/thin thing, but otherwise, spot on! I find that larger/fleshier lips, such as mine, actually do quite well with smaller diameters. That isn't to say anything about bottoming out though, because that is a matter of skill and efficiency.
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BobD
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Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Jazzhorn wrote:
| Quote: | | Am I the only one who feels like the Shew Jazz is bigger than a "standard" 3c? |
I agree. The Shew Jazz feels like a bigger piece to me in that the air goes thru it easier and I have nothing to push against. I'm thinking of going back to the 3C or possibly to a 6C.
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Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C |
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Rod Haney
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Joined: 22 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Different perspective.
I went from a 7c which felt fine, rim sharp but I could play OK for a couple of hours. Bought a Callet Buddy X5, almost no bite and a .641 where cup met rim, not real shallow. Everything improved, tone range - sound got bigger. I have good pedals and a hi G but a very usable hi E. Everything became easier and more comfortable and tone got bigger (that was a big surprise). Since then Ive had Jim New add the MF holy grail cup and it feels like butter. 25 drill. Creeping up on the good usable hi G and can pop some notes higher but I wouldn’t try to use them yet. The MP absolutely opened up my pedals and got that FAT sound.
I’m not advocating large or small and dont care what feels good to anyone but me, but some things that others feel are true about mouthpieces dont seem to apply to me. I’m just advocating trying many and listening to the sound and looking for ease of play. Normal accepted theory’s dont hold true for all players. It may also be due to my sound concept of trumpet which does not recognize the term ‘dark”. To me trumpets are clear and ringing, many horns and players dont match my idea of the trumpet sound, that’s what makes the world go around and keeps trumpet blogs going.
Rod |
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